The fucking karma system

[Sabb]

Here, think of it this way:

We have xXCuntDestroyerXx. He loves to play TTT. He frequents popular TTT servers with normal karma systems. Those servers probably keep the normal karma because they don't have the rdming/trolling problem we do. He stumbles upon our RND server with perma karma + your karma idea. He doesn't know about either until the next map, where he notices his karma was significantly lower.

He'll ask the frequent players, and they'll tell him about the system and blablabla insert reasons here.

And this is where our views conflict.

With mine, he'll say "My karma is permanent and I lose 300 every map change? Who's fucking bright idea was that? Fuck this shit."

xXCuntDestroyerXx disconnects. He wont stick around long enough to think of the reasons and if he agrees with them.

With yours, he'll say "Wow, this system really helps against the baiters and rdmers, I think I'll like it here."

He stays and becomes regular.

Which one is generally going to happen first?

Obviously in my opinion I think my suggestion is better so we're really not going to get anywhere here. There' no point in arguing it because it's just opinion. Not at all fact in any way. Personal, possibly even biased, opinion.

[Seb]

Obviously in my opinion I think my suggestion is better so we're really not going to get anywhere here. There' no point in arguing it because it's just opinion. Not at all fact in any way. Personal, possibly even biased, opinion.

I'm gonna need two guns for the levels of herp in this post.

Lock, before it gets worse.

[Cake Faice]

Obviously in my opinion I think my suggestion is better so we're really not going to get anywhere here. There' no point in arguing it because it's just opinion. Not at all fact in any way. Personal, possibly even biased, opinion.

Well you can only go so far with an opinion until you have to take common sense into consideration...

[Sabb]

I'm gonna need two guns for the levels of herp in this post.

Lock, before it gets worse.

Na, open for discussion. Different viewpoint doesn't = lock. Bash my post to the best of your ability.

[Deacon]

Lets pull this apart and see whats happening.

FUCK, NIGGER
There is no reason for you to insult me like this, and I will not stand for it again.




YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO A DECENT AMOUNT OF DAMAGE
What difference is it if <emphasis>I</emphasis> shoot someone with 540 karma (a 54% damage reduction)
vs.
Everyone else?

You aren't going to do different amounts of damage. It can't happen.
Therefore, as a matter of indisputable fact, we will do the same. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER will do the same, if they have that amount of karma.



BUT THAT'S NOT EXACTLY A COMMON ABILITY THAT EVERYBODY CAN UTILIZE.
Point, shoot. Seems pretty common to me. The only difference is that I'm willing to work with what I've got.

NOW THEN.
Objections?

[Seb]

Lets pull this apart and see whats happening.





NOW THEN.
Objections?

ima cri



EDIT: You're missing my point COMPLETELY. I completely forgot you disliked that word and I'll say I'm sorry for it, but what I am saying is NOT EVERYBODY IS AS SKILLED AS YOU.

[Deacon]

ima cri



EDIT: You're missing my point COMPLETELY. I completely forgot you disliked that word and I'll say I'm sorry for it, but what I am saying is NOT EVERYBODY IS AS SKILLED AS YOU.

And you're misconstruing mine. My point was never "look how good I am", it was "look how much damage someone with shitty karma can do".
Yes, I got lucky ALOT; thats not the point. Are you saying we need to make it easier to aim, because that is the only problem (and you can see I'm not very good at that in the first place).

The argument that you HAVE to work your karma back up to 800 before you can play is wrong; you can play, quite effectively more often that not, if you just accept your loss and work it like a handicap.

[cogsandspigots]

I think perma karma should be kept, but with some pretty big tweaks.
Have the loss decreased by about 20%.
But have karma GAINS increased by 200% (90 karma per round)
This way, RDMers are still punished, but people who make mistakes aren't haunted by it for too long.

[ursus]

And you're misconstruing mine. My point was never "look how good I am", it was "look how much damage someone with shitty karma can do".
Yes, I got lucky ALOT; thats not the point. Are you saying we need to make it easier to aim, because that is the only problem (and you can see I'm not very good at that in the first place).

The argument that you HAVE to work your karma back up to 800 before you can play is wrong; you can play, quite effectively more often that not, if you just accept your loss and work it like a handicap.

The entire point of making karma more lenient is so that you don't have to work with a handicap just for one or two mistakes.

That, and the fact that baiting would become pointless and gradually become replaced with a slight to moderate increase in RDM, which is easier to manage.

A karma change isn't really a necessity. You and others have spent the entire thread arguing that heavy karma losses can be worked with, and I respect that. Headshots from a deagle become lethal at around 640 karma, and scout headshots are somewhat more forgiving. I've done it before.

However, that's not the point of this. Although a change isn't necessary, it would certainly help. The game can be fun with strict karma if you have common sense, but if only people with common sense played on the server at all we wouldn't have a playerbase. We want the game to be fun for everyone, not just those who are willing to "work" for it. That's why it's a game. People don't come to TTT to "accept" their losses, they come to have FUN.

[Deacon]

The entire point of making karma more lenient is so that you don't have to work with a handicap just for one or two mistakes.

That, and the fact that baiting would become pointless and gradually become replaced with a slight to moderate increase in RDM, which is easier to manage.

A karma change isn't really a necessity. You and others have spent the entire thread arguing that heavy karma losses can be worked with, and I respect that. Headshots from a deagle become lethal at around 640 karma, and scout headshots are somewhat more forgiving. I've done it before.

However, that's not the point of this. Although a change isn't necessary, it would certainly help. The game can be fun with strict karma if you have common sense, but if only people with common sense played on the server at all we wouldn't have a playerbase. We want the game to be fun for everyone, not just those who are willing to "work" for it. That's why it's a game. People don't come to TTT to "accept" their losses, they come to have FUN.

And if the idea of fun is to play a game in which all you do is kill, why are you playing a game in which you are supposed to die to help your team win?

[ursus]

And if the idea of fun is to play a game in which all you do is kill, why are you playing a game in which you are supposed to die to help your team win?

...what?

The entire gamemode is based around killing. Points are assigned based on traitors killed while innocent, and innocents killed while traitor. You don't get points for dying. Am I missing something?

[Deacon]

...what?

The entire gamemode is based around killing. Points are assigned based on traitors killed while innocent, and innocents killed while traitor. You don't get points for dying. Am I missing something?

Yes.

Karma is not gained as a traitor, you just earn your standard round gain.
In order to determine traitors in the first place, it is necessary for one to die. Ergo, dying helps your team.

[ursus]

Yes.

Karma is not gained as a traitor, you just earn your standard round gain.
In order to determine traitors in the first place, it is necessary for one to die. Ergo, dying helps your team.

Dying may help the traitor to be found, but the objective isn't to die. You're supposed to hope someone else dies so you can find the traitor and kill them, or at least help someone to kill them. If you die as traitor without buying anything your traitor teammates can get extra credits. That "helps" your team, but that doesn't mean that as soon as a traitor round comes your priority is to suicide. The main objective of both teams is, ultimately, to kill.

Speaking of karma gained as traitor, there should be extra karma gain as traitor. Even if we keep the current karma, there should at least be a way to redeem yourself with a good traitor round.

[Deacon]

Dying may help the traitor to be found, but the objective isn't to die. You're supposed to hope someone else dies so you can find the traitor and kill them
so you don't want to die, just your teammates?


If you die as traitor without buying anything your traitor teammates can get extra credits. That "helps" your team, but that doesn't mean that as soon as a traitor round comes your priority is to suicide.
That is the functionality of giving your credits. Also, not the argument here.


The main objective of both teams is, ultimately, to kill.
And in order to get there, most of your team will die. I'm not arguing that the point is to instantly get killed, but getting killed is an integral step to completing a round.



Speaking of karma gained as traitor, there should be extra karma gain as traitor. Even if we keep the current karma, there should at least be a way to redeem yourself with a good traitor round.

Would encourage teaming, which I believe is why it is disabled.

[Eion Kilant 739]

This thread is so silly.

I think we can all agree that aside from being a Traitor, having low karma is hardly any fun. I generally am Traitor only once per map.

So lets say I witness someone kill three people, or perhaps someone throw an incendiary into a crowded room, maybe even shoot the detective several times, or if I get attacked out of the blue. Being the skillful-sometimes player I am I go out and I kill them because that obviously was a Traitorous act! But oh wait, they were an Innocent and they left a minute after they died! Now I have low karma and can't really do shit against Traitors.

That is the biggest problem I have with the system, right there. RDMers.

RDMers!

Can I please lose a lot less karma when I kill an Innocent who leaves a minute after their death but before the round ends?