Old ZS VS New ZS?

[Rocket50]

While playing on the servers I overhear from a lot of people that they prefer the old ZS.
Namely the new ZS had too much sitting behind a barricade not doing anything.

The funny thing is, people sit behind barricades more in the old ZS because they cant regen health and are afraid of being caded out if they leave. However in the new ZS, people do cade and hide, but more often than not, they have the opportunity to ghost out to get kills before returning during wave breaks to get healed by the medics.

[Loke]

The zombie's reach in the new ZS.
Waay too short. You can't hit a human behind the barricade.
And I don't like the points shop and the worth shop. I liked it more when the weapons were random because it would give the humans a bit more of a challenge.
The delay between hits.
Oh god. Out of ammo? No ammo regen. Fast headcrab with anything but a knife? You sir, are going to die. The delay is what I hate. I don't care about realism. I want a gamemode that's playable in my eyes.
Please keep old ZS ;_;

[Prox]

1. The zombie's reach in the new ZS.
Waay too short. You can't hit a human behind the barricade.

2. And I don't like the points shop and the worth shop. I liked it more when the weapons were random because it would give the humans a bit more of a challenge.
3. The delay between hits.

4. Oh god. Out of ammo? No ammo regen. Fast headcrab with anything but a knife? You sir, are going to die. The delay is what I hate. I don't care about realism.

5. I want a gamemode that's playable in my eyes.
Please keep old ZS ;_;

1. Maybe it's shorter but the hit detection is clientside which means no more "omgwtf i was right near him and i couldnt hit him"

2. I don't see how does this give more challenge since in point system you have to buy stuff and in kill system you get stuff instantly.

3. I'm pretty sure it can be adjusted.

4. Again headcrab damage can be adjusted and if you can't kill a single headcrab with any weapon then you're just plain bad.

5. Are you saying that the new Zs is not playable because it's too hard? Well this one is way too easy + many "tricks" like swimming in a big pool of water or making a tree house cade make it insanely easy for humans.

[Deathie]

3. I'm pretty sure it can be adjusted.

Oh, it can be. Heh.

I remember for shits and giggles, I made the wooden plank attack really fast but have super low damage and knockback. I made it like, five credits I think. Dirt cheap, so even people with full loadouts can at least get one melee.

The wooden plank actually became a favorite, since you could hold down the attack key and chase around headcrabs. The two most popular melee's were the plank and the shovel. Everyone wanted either something that was fast and weak, or slow and powerful. Nobody really got anything inbetween, which I thought was kind of funny.

[coolzeldad]

http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,13676.0.html

[Cryptokid]

I'm not going to lie, I absolutely hate the new version.

To start, if you decide to be the guy to barricade for your team, prepare to have the most boring fucking round ever. You are going to sit there repairing nails the whole time and when you finally get enough points for a weapon, you can't buy it because you need to buy more nails instead. Rinse and repeat. This many times will actually lead to the death of the humans because they are short a player who would otherwise help them since all he can do is work on a barricade.

Secondly, ammo regen, or the lack of it, is another problem in my opinion. You use all your ammo up and then you're caught between wanting a new weapon and buying more ammo for your current one. If you buy the new weapon, you won't have ammo for it and if you buy the ammo for your current weapon so you can afford the newer weapon and its ammo, you will get caught in a loop.

The other thing I hate is the melee weapons and how they get used against zombies. In the old version, yes humans can dance around a zombie to kill him, but humans CAN still get hit. In the new version, there is almost no point in using your melee on anything else besides a headcrab because you WILL get hit. So then you have to go and waste your ammo. And speaking of headcrabs, you can't melee them. Prox, I read your post earlier, you know I'm a good player and I'm complaining about not being able to kill them. They have like no delay in lunges and their hitboxes are worse than that of a human in the old version.

These are just my thoughts. I could go on about how I personally hate the gameplay but that is more of an opinion. I just don't find this version fun.

[Prox]

Damage and delay can be adjusted, and yes it's much harder to kill zombies with melee because of the client side hitboxes which means that if the human looks like he's in reach of you he will get hit unlike in the old version + smaller melee weapon distance I believe. The hitboxes should be more accurate for the humans as well but I need to play the new version again.
  But speaking about the cading, was it so different in the old version? If you wanted to nail or cade, you still had to regen nails/boards except in the new version zombies are capable of getting near the cade to actually damage it. Also shooting zombie at early waves does not mean that you are wasting ammo, you now get points for damage.

I believe it's undeniable to say that the new Zs is more balanced, perhaps it's much easier for zombies, but I prefer 10 humans vs 20 zombies in the first 3 waves then 20 humans vs 3 out of 10 zombies who either went AFK or rage quited.

[Targnil]

Agreed, on all that is said why old zs is better in this thread.
I have played the new zs and from my opinion it clearly isn't balanced.
My own thoughts now:
Basically the new system wants to make it even harder for humans to win than it is now
when in the old zs it is hard and challenging enough for humans to win the rounds already.
In the old zs I don't recall humans winning even 1/3 of the matches.
Even though there is alot of sitting behind cades in nox, I remember humans not winning a single round, going outside cades is suicidal, even in groups and
even if you manage survive behind a well made cade with some luck, that is boring compared to old zs ways.
Yah, well maybe there's one tiny flaw I agree on with the old zs.
Running from zombies in water especially with extra speed is a bit overpowered but that alone doesnt change my opinion about old zs, clearly not even all maps have water for that opportunity to abuse.
If you go alone as a zombie and die, u respawn, dont cry about it, we are all zombies sometime and it isnt even too boring to me, its also up to the zombies to do some teamwork.
propkilling in old zs? personally happened to me so rarely in old zs it never bothered me, 2 or 3 times in the year or more I'v been familiar with this server.

[Cake Faice]

Agreed, on all that is said why old zs is better in this thread.
I have played the new zs and from my opinion it clearly isn't balanced.
My own thoughts now:
Basically the new system wants to make it even harder for humans to win than it is now
when in the old zs it is hard and challenging enough for humans to win the rounds already.
In the old zs I don't even remember humans winning even 1/3 of the matches.
Even though there is alot of sitting behind cades in nox, I remember humans not winning a single round, going outside cades is suicidal, even in groups and
even if you manage survive behind a well made cade with some luck, that is boring compared to old zs ways.

It'd be really nice if you were able to type in paragraphs.

In the old ZS, humans won depending on the map. The maps were either rooting toward the humans or rooting toward the zombies, or on some occasions, had a balance of both. They'd all use the cade kit to make a barrier all around them and shoot from there, until the chems came in. after that, everyone would scramble to their own fate/win. The new ZS, if anything, makes it a bit easier for humans and zombies.

And uh, what are you trying to get at with "old zs ways"? In new zs, if someone decides to be a chicken shit and cade on the first round, you have the ability to move in and out of cades instead of being blocked in/out. And by the time zombies have grown large enough in size, the people hiding in the cades from wave one will get over run and pwned due to them not having any powerful weapons from lack of said zombie killing.

[Shawn]

the people hiding in the cades from wave one will get over run and pwned due to them not having any powerful weapons from lack of said zombie killing.

That can be said with old zs aswell. Doesn't matter what version i find its always a good idea to stay out fighting until you can't then retreat to a cade...

[Targnil]

It'd be really nice if you were able to type in paragraphs.

In the old ZS, humans won depending on the map. The maps were either rooting toward the humans or rooting toward the zombies, or on some occasions, had a balance of both. They'd all use the cade kit to make a barrier all around them and shoot from there, until the chems came in. after that, everyone would scramble to their own fate/win. The new ZS, if anything, makes it a bit easier for humans and zombies.

And uh, what are you trying to get at with "old zs ways"? In new zs, if someone decides to be a chicken shit and cade on the first round, you have the ability to move in and out of cades instead of being blocked in/out. And by the time zombies have grown large enough in size, the people hiding in the cades from wave one will get over run and pwned due to them not having any powerful weapons from lack of said zombie killing.

With the zombies teaming on humans I don't personally recall barely any map being in favor of the humans in the old zs.
Still clearly most of the matches is won by the zombies when they team up properly in large numbers.

In the end, the new zs only makes it harder for humans like I stated
Zombiekilling was barely possible outside cades in nox, even when the zombies were in low numbers.
It's not significant way of earning points compared to being inside a cade whole match like most are in nox from the beginning.
Outside cades anybody will just run out ammo and fast in new zs since meleeing other than headcrabs is nearly impossible.

[Seb]

With the zombies teaming on humans I don't personally recall barely any map being in favor of the humans in the old zs.

You better not be serious.

[Cake Faice]

In the end, the new zs only makes it harder for humans like I stated
Zombiekilling was barely possible outside cades in nox, even when the zombies were in low numbers.
It's not significant way of earning points compared to being inside a cade whole match like most are in nox from the beginning.
Outside cades anybody will just run out ammo and fast in new zs since meleeing other than headcrabs is nearly impossible.

I don't see how it's barely possible to kill zombies outside of cades unless you have really horrible aiming and miss 9/10 shots. Usually you're accompanied by other players/groups against lone zombies, if not, it's not impossible to kill a zombie 1 on 1 like you were stating.

And once again, if you've gained points outside of cades and you run out of ammo, it's not like old zs were you're fucked for a good minute or so, you can move back inside the cade, usually someone spawns a crate, and you buy more ammo.

[Prox]

So far the new Zs seems to be getting more attention then the old one.

[The punisher]

This newer version is horrible. Why you might ask? I am very fine with the new mechanics it has. Like having to time your melee, having to find a hallway in which to cade, having to cade things mostly vertical, having to group as zombies, having to make sure to always repair nails, having to ask those retarded noobs your teamates to do something like, ask for a bit of ammo so you can get 1 more point to get more ammo, or a new weapon, or nails or something. But, with these game mechanics, what map does something that was created for 2.01 do we have? We have been making maps for years, made specifically for the mechanics of zs 2.01. Now ofcourse, the maps we made, usually had something game breaking to zs 2.01. But that was it, it was the map that made the mechanics exploitable, not the game mode itself. zs 2.01 was about gun run, it was to not have to care about teamwork. Now why should i like something that is pretty much the complete opposite of zs 2.01... but still using the same maps? Maps that have major cading spots using blue shelves will be ruined (like ascent, tripple decker etc). Maps that had gun run spots and had cading done primarily in the vents, are obsolete, they wont work, because this new version focuses on cading. If you don't have a good spot on a map to barricade, then it is hopeless; sometimes it doesn't even matter if you have a great cading spot, because some people wont go there, and because of teamwork, if majority of humans are dead, you're fucked anyways. Pretty much, maps are split into two categories, 1. the horribly easy maps and 2. the horribly hard maps The horribly hard maps are maps that were made for zs 2.01 and were more themed on having lots of ammo, open area to dodge fast zombies, headcrab, and fast headcrabs, you could gun run the whole map, get a back to the hp machine, suck all the life out of that and keep gun running. But... none of these mechanics are in zs 3.XX. You have to be inside a cade that consisted of a opening JUST enough so headcrabscant get in, but any bit farther closed means you cant attack zombies well enough to survive. But... this map doesn't have this feature of being able to cade great, and and headcrabs do like 7-8 dmg, so pretty much, more than 5 headcrabs hitting you can kill you. So you have to be in the non existent cade to survive. Which means, you can't survive. So that is horribly hard. Horribly easy is maps like dying refinery, it is made for visuals, then we added some certain vent that happens to be a long ass hallway, and easy to block off. Wondering what the two biggest things to win zs 3.XX is? making a cade that is in a hallway, so you can kill zombies before they can reach the cade, and having most people alive (50% zombies? might as well suicide). See, the problem with horribly easy maps is that it focuses on things that make  2.01 fun, but easy, and only made 3.xx just easy. It's not really fun to get points behind a cade, you don't really have a choice, either, cade or go out of the cade and die. The only thing that's satisfying is surviving, but for what? I don't see how repairing the cade and killing zombies in an outdated map is fun. So there, two kinds of maps that almost all maps fall under.
Another point is that the gamemode doesn't need to be modified. Zs 3.XX is alright, it's just the maps we use, we can't really make maps for it, because a lot of us are new to the new version, and can't make create mechanics for the new zs that makes it "balanced". So.... either use outdated maps or use nox maps. Which means, we are just using the same version as noxious net and the same maps as noxious net.  Remember, i've played nox, i've seen the players handle the game mode perfectly, i didn't like the game mode for certain reasons, so i didn't play it, i played rnd zs 2.01 because it was fun and didn't really have many limits. most of the people i've seen play zs take it on the same way they played zs 2.01. New mechanics, new playing style. I mentioned that i've played nox before because i wanted you to know that it is fucking aggrivating to see people make the most horrible cades that i've seen. There is very limited cading styles in the new zs, if you don't follow it's style, you're screwed, and your cade is bad. So it's pretty obvious it'll take a while for rnd to get used to the new game mode and learn the mechanics, but i'm not going to be there. I've learned them, they are pretty boring compared to 2.01's mechanics. new is more organized and has roles, where old you could do whatever you really wanted.  I have a few more things to say...
Teamwork: This is a bad example of teamwork, see, teamwork should be like in teamfortress 2 where you do something to contribute to the team, where as here, we all have to work together in order to survive, if we don't do everything right, we die, if we do.... maybe, depending on our cade of course. Let's say the entire team i'm with is retarded and cades in the most stupid place ever, piling props so they cant even shoot zombies, why should i suffer because they are all dumb? I can't leave the cade and make my own cade and survive, i would be alone. So you are forced to cade where everyone else is cading, or else you're dead... pretty much ruins it for me since as i said, this is new to a lot of members, so in instinct, they are noobs and don't know how to cade that is "acceptable" in the new zs.
Zombies: Zombie bosses are a neat edition, bringing a challenge at every end wave which can either tip the favor into the humans (killing boss = lots of points and with low casualties, you're gaining an advantage). or zombies (pretty much either wipe out humans or break open the cade/weaken them so next wave can finish them off). It's really nice that it's not random, and that it takes the best zombie (does most damage to humans) to be the boss. What i don't like about either the normal zombies hit detection "fixed" and the bosses being pretty much god is that it's easy as fuck to get kills and redeem. Zombie is suppose to be hard, it's to show that it's a punishment for dying, if zombie was fun and easy, wouldn't everyone be zombie? kinda fucks the game a little. Also, since it's easy to get kills, the moment you get 4 kills, you pretty much killed the humans, so what is the point of redeeming? To just die again.
What i'm trying to point out is that because we have overpowered maps and people complaining doesn't mean we should go and take the newer zs and modify it to suit the maps, we need to map better for the older zs, maybe modify the older zs to fit things. Why dont we just take coding from the newer zs like bosses, repairing nails and phasing through props and add it into the older zs? why don't we just make maps with more of game mechanics in mind than "does it look good?" (not that making a map look good is a bad thing!).