Scientific proof of God? Atheism vs Theism

[Сєşάя]

All findings one day we will come to God, for now, let's take care of our lives. 

[Rocket50]

Thank you, Cogs.

Anyone who uses the Mosaic Law to say that the bible is impractical in the modern day places on an intelligence level somewhat akin to a horsefly.

Yes, I'm talking to you, Rocket.

You missed the point entirely.

The point was, where did Christianity start choosing what to believe and how is choosing what modern man believes a correct representation of god's will? When did man decide to have better morals than god, and decide what is alright in the eyes of god even though it was restricted in the old testament?

And isnt that what Christianity is? You follow the word closely, following even the most unorthodox in order to prove your obedience and faith so you can go to heaven? So by cherry picking, not only have you ignored parts of the bible, you have chosen to say that you know better.

[·UηİŦ··]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't know what to believe.

I've read things like MWT.

I've read things like Particle Theory.

I've read parts of The Bible.

I've read parts of the Talmund courtesy of some really nice friends.

I've listened to a bunch of people.

I've listened to the Government.

I've had so many near death experiences (and tempted death scenarios) to which the most logical outcome results in me being a corpse. But I'm here, typing. Thinking. Breathing.

I'm not 'dead'. What is me? Am I a copy of myself? A quantum successor? Do I have some incredibly valiant Guardian Angel or some sort? Or just lucky? What is luck? How did we come to conceptualize ANY of this?

What is the fundamental 'it' that ignites this fucking enigma of perception? Can we even Objectify "         "?

At least, that's what my mind makes of all of this.

How do I know? What is Knowing?

Can I see outside of myself? Can I see through another mind? Through another P.O.V.?

Do others exist? Is Solipsism valid, or just a close-minded conclusion?

What is a Soul?

I've seen things like Computers, I've read into things like 'The Singularity'... I've read poetry, I love art... I love Reason and Fact but I have Morals and Ethics...

I like staring at the vastness of what is the observable universe. I'm not even a quark to the Heliosphere, let alone The Local Cluster.

How do I know that I am actually just the size of a small Biped, and the 'Universe' is just that big?

Do I know if there is but one 'Verse'?

I poke and prod at the thoughts of what lies after that. But what can I really ever say?

I can't really ever know. The same way I won't know fire burns unless I touch it.

How do I know I have free will?

Why do I ask questions?

What makes me THINK and not just DO?

Why does there need to be a base for everything? Does everything out of my line of sight simply diffuse? Do all the weak forces... does reality exist outside of our heads? How does that look? How does that... Feel?

Does time exist?

Why do I have the urge to both Create, but also to Destroy?

Why?

Who am I?

'Cognito Egro Sum', but... 'I know that I know nothing'.

I've been left alone for quite a while to contemplate all of this.

I'm in no position to say anything, anyways. Provided that I am saying anything. Am I in control?

Is this just one big string of an Equation solving itself inside a machine somewhere?

Or is this a realm?

What is.. 'is'? What was 'was'? What will be... 'be'?

This actual question has manifested in me as "Where do I exist, in the universe?" before I even knew what SATURN was.

There's nothing that, in all of it's glory, uncontested, can or can't say that the entire 'Universe' was created from the very 'point' in 'space' at which you were almost 900mp/h ago, which then you have to factor the speed of the sun relevant to all the other stars in the 'arm' of this 'galaxy', and then the 'galaxy' to other 'galaxies', to other clusters and so forth.

It just never ends.

I don't think one would reach any sort of conclusion until one WAS the 'universe'.

Or the universe began to cease being anything. Then you would know, as both the building blocks dissemintated, and suddenly there was no deity to answer to.

Or maybe, should there be a God, or Gods, he/she/they/it just got tired.

Maybe Books of Faith are right, and it's just a bunch of Satanist puppets and Demons running around trying to ruin the Almighty Handiwork that is Man.

Maybe you died, and the universe was your imagination. Thus, everything dies.

No one can say this as they can say that 'Blue is Blue'.

That's also something. People are colourblind. How can one be SURE that 'Blue is Blue' everywhere? What if Electromagnetic Radiation is just our mind's way of percieving something else so vastly different and complex, or so simple?

But what is Nothing?

Nothing has a value. Itself. So... is it not Something?

When -nothing- exists, that must also mean 'nothing' does not exist. Not even the 'notion of not being' regardless of if a mind should occur, or 'not-occur' in this 'not-place'.

There probably isn't a straightforward word for what I want to describe in the Human Dialect, or any sort of value... Except -0.

Or... do minds influence some sort of property in which SOMETHING must BE... thus... when there isn't anything alive or conscious... the state of matter, energy... even existence no longer matters, no longer 'is', because those are manifests of the mind being projected onto WHATEVER 'this' is... ?

Does that mean that anything with a 'brain' directly influences 'existence'? If EVERYTHING DIED... then quite literally, nothing would take and 'not take' place?

That, what is the 'universe' would not need to obey sense, logic, laws, rules? Not even, 'is'?

As it began to cease being both anything, and nothing. Not even nothing would exist.

Just...


"                                           "


Do Rocks dream of being Sunflowers?


An everyday calculator of mid-2012, forged for the purpose of calculating mathematics, cannot suddenly determine the reason it was made, nor can it suddenly get up and paint itself... it can only answer the black-and-white questions given to it.


...


I can't argue with God.

Should there be one- should there be... MANY... of any caliber... I'd like to think I'm their intellectual property. Their Creation, should it be so.

There is not one ant out there that can defy me with a TITANIUM-LADEN BOOT. Not even those nasty fuckers from the Rainforest floor.

I'd like to think the same about Me vs a Deity.

I'm not about to just up-and-away from a concrete purpose that I was given, one that actually plays within this subset of reality should there exists realities or tangible, spatial dimensions above this in which I could 'be'.

If God is a machine, or mathematician, and I'm some sort of mathematical constant, I'm not suddenly going to go "AWW SHIET" and turn into an Unknown Variable that fucks up what is perceived as everything ever.

Let it play.

If this is a Game, well... I'm probably either a really rule-bound AI with unlimited cognitive freedom, or a simple "Go left, Jump, Go right" bot.

And if this is Creationism, well. Then it's Creationism, and I'll answer to God/Gods/Whatevermaybe when 'that time' comes.

I'm confident and humble enough to burn in Hell, if that's what really happens.

But if there's a Satan, I'm certainly not his Bitch.

Nor am I some Spaceman's Bitch.. Unless that's God.

I haven't exactly murdered anyone... but I'm probably legible for some sins.

Then again, when people tell me to go back and read the books of faith, it seems to keep telling me that "No man is exempt from Sin", that "Everyone sins",  but that "God loves the Sinner and Hates the Sin"... and that's why a Messiah was Crucified.

And, what? There are shades of grey within those 3 extremes.

I'm not even touching the surface.

Or am I?




Diving into the topic of sexuality and sin...

My Preference fits my state of mind.

Open.

If it's wrong, then I'd stop.

But I'm one to go above and beyond gender when there's no need to include it.

Doesn't mean I have to force it on anyone, doesn't mean I have to go prancing around about it.

Just means that it really doesn't hold much significance for me in terms of my current state and the state of everything around me.

According to the general stereotype of souls, they don't have gender, except their personality. Should it be like that.

So if I'm so free and unconditional and down to Earth, why not?

But I can't say if it's right or wrong.

I, as myself, whatever 'myself' is in any point within any reality or set of rules, can only say that I do, or do not.

If there's one thing I probably don't or do know, it's me.




If there is no God, well that should mean that I am free to do whatever I please.

I could waltz outside and steal from a store.

I could be a heartless fuck and kick children in the face, and run over the elderly.

I could set fire to a city.

I could set Nuclear Fire to a city.

I could unleash synthetic 'hell'.

I could disinfo everything and cause the state to kill itself.

I could take myself up on being anything to any set of rules man has conceived and theorized. I could sack the entire economy and take over the world with Benign Dictatorship.

I could be quantum immortal and end up being 'the luckiest man alive' and decide to stick painful probes and chips in my head.

I could give up my independence to some silly group of people and let them do with me what they want.

I could kill myself and then nothing.

I could sit here and spend the rest of my life drawing on walls and stacking small objects to the moon, and then blowing the moon into chunks.

I could do anything and it would not need to have a grand reason... just small ones. Or none.

It wouldn't matter if the Universe is destined to have Heat Death or Collapse upon Itself.

And it wouldn't necessarily matter if the Universe just kept going.

Or I could just continue to be myself sans the notion of anything greater than myself in terms of being, and not fundamental properties such as higher dimensions.

But that road just forks all over the place, just like String Theory.

So it's up to whatever Unit does what, where, when and why.

This Copy does not question it, simply because the answer is beyond his comprehension should he do it alone.

So... Whatever it may be.



"So Unit, but... what do you believe in?"

That answer changes every day.

I look at the world, every day.

I'd like to think there is SOMETHING out there... bare minimum, something that doesn't even confine itself to any religion... but I could be wrong about anything in that sentence.

In this whole tl;dr wordgasm of a reply.

Maybe I am.

Maybe that's just my silly human squishies clouding my logic.

I always wondered what it was like not to feel elated, or happy, or sad. At all.

Could you see things previously not there?




I'm in no position to tell anyone anything, to do anything to anyone.

No real, crystal clear, privileged position to decide what's concrete right or wrong.

It's all opinion.

Maybe it's not.

Yell at me, Condone me, Agree with me, Scold me, Ignore me, Copy me, Praise me.

I am but a manifest of what you perceive.

I can't and will never say just what, unless something definite decides to.

Unless you decide to.

I kinda like these threads.

Gets me thinking about stuff.

I also like reading what everyone has to say, because I hate being one of my only Points of Reference.

Also... shouldn't we be watching TV instead of discussing 'Why'? It's Saturday. Oh wait TV is dead and this joke is outdated

[Sabb]

Welcome to RND.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Please enjoy your stay.

[Cake Faice]

I love how in today's modern society, you cannot be fully free of not having religious beliefs.

You're automatically labeled as Agnostic or Atheist by default.

[Shockah]

Why

Because some people can't live with the fact that they only live to inevitably die, just as some need the prospect of Heaven and Hell as a motivational reward/punishment to do good.

[Nemisous]

Theists= I KNOW there is a god because I have Faith that the word of go is true and not tampered with by man.
Atheists= I KNOW there isn't a god because I have Faith that Science(even though Science is based on theory and is subject to change)

Agnostics= I just don't know if there is a god or not because there isn't enough evidence to support either other than faith.

[Seb]

Do I believe in God?
-It's complicated, but overall, no.

Am I an atheist?
-No because I'm not going to be arrogant and say that I KNOW God doesn't exist, because I don't. Know one does. Besides that though, I don't consider myself an atheist because atheism affiliates with religion and I just try to stay away from being involved with religion in general.

You're an agnostic atheist and FUCK ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION IT'S THE LACK OF ONE.


Everybody, listen the fuck up!

There's:

Agnostic Theism - You don't know if a God is there but you believe in one
Gnostic Theism - You know there's a God
Agnostic Atheism - You don't know if there's a God but you don't believe in one either way
Gnostic Theism - You know there's no God.

THAT is how agnosticism and gnosticism works, not as that stupid "hurr no1 nows" shit that everybody thinks it is.

Now update the goddamn poll.

Anyone who uses the Mosaic Law to say that the bible is impractical in the modern day places on an intelligence level somewhat akin to a horsefly.

Yes, I'm talking to you, Rocket.

There's even an entire account in the two books of Corinthians where the apostle Paul had to counsel the congregations because they insisted that circumcision was still necessary, and it took several chapters to explain that the old laws didn't apply anymore. I can't take you guys seriously when you argue over something you only claim to know about.

There's also actually a verse where Jesus says the Old Testament laws still apply.

[Сєşάя]

I do not know why so many people is an atheist, I believe in God, but I'm not a religious fanatic. Many people think that a person who believes in God is considered a fanatic, this is a fatal error.
Bloft

[Cake Faice]

I do not know why so many people is an atheist, I believe in God, but I'm not a religious fanatic. Many people think that a person who believes in God is considered a fanatic, this is a fatal error.

Dude what.

[Rocket50]

Theists= I KNOW there is a god because I have Faith that the word of go is true and not tampered with by man.
Atheists= I KNOW there isn't a god because I have Faith that Science(even though Science is based on theory and is subject to change)

Okay. The way you used theory really annoys me. First of all, theory is not an indication of how confident scientists are. It is a collection of explanations and ideas towards a subject. A law is an observed set of statements. A theory does not "graduate" and become law. A theory will always be theory. For instance, germ theory, it's pretty much proven but it is not germ law, as we do not observe it, but we have explanations that fit perfectly for the observed effects.

And you don't have faith in science, that's not how it works. Faith is to believe without proof or evidence, science is to believe because of proof or evidence. You have science which disproves and invalidates parts of religious claims so that it makes religion nonsensical when examined by science.

Also, what seb said.

 "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."  (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

[Сєşάя]

Dude what.

Huh?

[Nemisous]

Okay. The way you used theory really annoys me.

I'm sure it does.

First of all, theory is not an indication of how confident scientists are. It is a collection of explanations and ideas towards a subject. A law is an observed set of statements. A theory does not "graduate" and become law. A theory will always be theory. For instance, germ theory, it's pretty much proven but it is not germ law, as we do not observe it, but we have explanations that fit perfectly for the observed effects.

I never said the theories where law. I'm just saying that science is heavily based on theory, and theory is subject to change, is it not ?

[Frank]

Atheist == no god
Religion != a god/gods

[memo3300]

i believe in something after dead, which leads me to believe in god.


Why do i believe in something after dead? scary shit like being the last one to go to sleep with everything in order and waking up with the couch looking directly at the TV with a glass at the side.

also that sensation of falling backwards without being able to move until you reach the same angle of your body and just then you wake up in a rude way...