Possible Solution to Reduce Karma Lost from RDMers

[Eion Kilant 739]

IMO it shouldn't be just relative to the round start - or rather, SOME of my idea should apply for the entirety of the round since people can be RDM'd as tater even after that [seemingly arbitrary] timeframe passes.

True, but most of the RDMing happens early in the round. We don't want some asshole abusing the system to get the other person to lose karma. EX: Picking up gun used to kill player by other T and then making it look like he killed the person, causing a drop in the killer's karma.

I don't want a system that could be used to Karma-grief, I want one that gets back at RDMers.

[Travelsonic]

True, but most of the RDMing happens early in the round.

Even so, if we make it so it is only as the start of the round, we miss out on contingencies - in this case, RDMs in the round past that point - that IMO of course should not be missed.

[[TTPN] ShadowMoon]

I think i've come upon a suitable solution to reduce the amount of karma lost upon killing a RDMer. What if when you kill an Innocent your Karma drops the usual amount instantly, but it does not update the scoreboard and the damage dealt until after the round? This would cause people who kill RDMers (thinking they are Traitors) to lost less karma.

The desired result from this is to reassure people who would otherwise be too fearful to kill anyone who is called out. Thoughts/Opinions?

inb4 irony

No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. 

[Travelsonic]

No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. 

See my post on the previous page. 

[Eion Kilant 739]

No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. 

Wat. If you actualy want us to know what you are talking about please tell us what it is or where we can find it.

This thread is about nerfing karma lost when you kill an RDMer who has killed multiple teammates (Such as a Psyco Detective). The fear of losing a ton of one's hard-earned karma has caused alot of problems on the TTT server. If you can find a problem in that please point it out so the final idea will be improved.

[Travelsonic]

But seriously, something NEEDS to be done about the karma system.

If I accidentally shoot something like a propane tank [many times smaller than an explosive barrel], which explodes, then that makes an explosive barrel go off, and that kills one person, is that really worthy of losing 600 FUCKING KARMA?

[ursus]

But seriously, something NEEDS to be done about the karma system.

If I accidentally shoot something like a propane tank [many times smaller than an explosive barrel], which explodes, then that makes an explosive barrel go off, and that kills one person, is that really worthy of losing 600 FUCKING KARMA?

Don't shoot propane tanks.

I hear those explode.

[Travelsonic]

Don't shoot propane tanks.

I hear those explode.

  simple minded thinking that fails to address the basic fact that the ideal situation isn't always [resent, and that accidents happen.


Unless I'm tater, I don't intentionally, but when you have a gunfight going on with a good number of people, and you don't know WHO it may be, and you're being shot at, and people simultaneously baiting others with the barrels, you'd have to be derping hard to think it can't happen accidentally - and should be treated the same as intentionally blowing them up with people next to them.

[ursus]

I generally don't shoot when there's a gigantic clusterfuck of killing going on.

If you shoot into a gunfight, you're ASKING to lose karma.

[Travelsonic]

I generally don't shoot when there's a gigantic clusterfuck of killing going on.

If you shoot into a gunfight, you're ASKING to lose karma.

...

You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?

[ursus]

...

You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?

I understand that you're not content with the amount of karma lost, but I'm taking this opportunity to point out that the best way to reduce the amount of karma lost is simply not shooting.

I'm aware that accidents do happen, and that sometimes you lose more karma than you should, but the situation that you're describing could easily be avoided.

If 5-10 people are in a giant group, and everyone is shooting everyone, and there are explosive props nearby, you just shouldn't even fire your weapon at all. It's a horrible idea, and you have no case in saying that it's unfair that you lost karma because you blew up a barrel.

However, if someone tries to RDM you and you're quicker in killing them (Hence reducing the amount of karma THEY lose, and maximizing the amount YOU lose), that's a perfectly valid point.

Basic common sense from real life applies in TTT. Don't shoot when you're likely to miss. Even better yet, don't shoot.

[Eion Kilant 739]

...

You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?

Correct. The thread is about loosing less karma when you kill RDMers. Such as for every teammate they kill that round the teammate who killed them looses less karma from that specific kill. In theory it would help stop players from being to scared to shoot anyone.

But there is no way to dampen karma loss for such unique situations. We can't have people simulating an "accident" and killing someone with less karma loss so they can do it again.

[mickey0528]

The recalculation of karma for teamkilling yes, but there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.

IMO:

We should add a mechanism that does the following:

If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective. 

On top of that, add a mechanism that does this:  If a guy kills a Traitor as inno or detective, and the Traitors collectively have damaged or killed nobody, that person suffers karma loss - the intent being to deter or prevent first blood RDMing.     The only issue I see with this idea is if a T has a knife or C4 or Newton Launcher, etc, and shows it, or uses it, or tries to use it, then that is grounds to kill said person, to recognize that exception make it so if the Traitor was carrying a knife when he died, or had just thrown or used it, then this karma loss would not occur. 

An explanation of the above idea:

Round begins:

Inno v T

If Ts have damaged or killed nobody:

- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised:  No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?

It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.

What if the traitor is obviously trying to shoot a guy but missed? So killing him will cause karma loss?

[Travelsonic]

What if the traitor is obviously trying to shoot a guy but missed? So killing him will cause karma loss?

Good question.  I'm thinking of a revision to my idea to take that into account.

[Eion Kilant 739]

*Checks thread*
*notices no moderator or admin has posted*
*assumes no moderator or admin has seen thread*
*bumps thread* My apologies, I feel as though this will save players alot of karma trouble and I'd like it to atleast be considered to see if it would be for the better.