Possible Solution to Reduce Karma Lost from RDMers

[Ἆxule]

I think he meant to say this:

1. player Z kills y x and v

2. they were innos

3.player A. kills Z beacuse he killed those 3 innos

4.player A loses less karma for killing Z beacuse he killed 3 innos

So I think he meant we should lose less karma for killing rdm'ers

It already does that.

Player Z's karma after it's gone through it's equation will then go into the equation for Player A's karma.

so for example,
Player Z's previous karma = n ; his karma after being equated will = m

for player A's karma, it'll take the m karma, not the n, for the equation.

[semy32]

I thought the calculating happens after the round

[Ἆxule]

I thought the calculating happens after the round

It does.

What I'm saying is that it calculates the first Z's karma before it calculates A's karma.

[Frank]

It does.

What I'm saying is that it calculates the first Z's karma before it calculates A's karma.

Wait, so karma during rounds is


mindfuck'd.

So, like, everyone keeps the

wait, how can the system calculate the RDMer's karma first?

[Ἆxule]

Wait, so karma during rounds is


mindfuck'd.

So, like, everyone keeps the

wait, how can the system calculate the RDMer's karma first?

I don't know how it goes, but I would assume it takes the information chronologically, meaning it would calculate the first shot, then the second, then the third, and fourth, and etc.

From my knowing, it registers how much damage you do to either the Traitor's or Innocent's, not whether you kill them or not.

[Frank]

I don't know how it goes, but I would assume it takes the information chronologically, meaning it would calculate the first shot, then the second, then the third, and fourth, and etc.

From my knowing, it registers how much damage you do to either the Traitor's or Innocent's, not whether you kill them or not.

Okay well, what the guy proposes is:


1. BigBlackCock is innocent and kills SmallGingerPenis and TinyAsiandick. He RDM'd, because they were all innocents, and he killed them for no reason.

2. BBC's karma is lowered after each shot, but the results aren't SHOWN until the end of the round. What does it mean? His karma has already been lowered, therefore the avenger of the RDMer will lose less karma than normally.

3. Damage is not changed. Only the karma numbers.

[Travelsonic]

*AHEM* Unless this server is set up differently, this is something that should be pointed out. 

From the TTT gamemode website [http://ttt.badking.net/help#karma]:
[emphases are mine]

During a round, Karma is updated behind the scenes. As soon as you damage someone your Karma goes down. So if you are Innocent, and you see someone kill multiple other innocents, you can safely shoot him: he is either a traitor, or a teamkiller who will have low Karma.

The updated Karma is not displayed on the scoreboard and crosshair info, because that would let you easily figure out if someone is a Traitor. This is the difference between Base Karma (shown on scoreboard etc) and Live Karma (updated "live" during a round). After the end of the round, your Live Karma becomes your Base Karma, and you can see everyone's up-to-date Karma on the scoreboard.

At the end of each round, you regain Karma if you are below the maximum. If you did not damage a teammate that round, you will receive a significant bonus.

In general, your Karma will be okay as long as you don't consistently kill teammates every round.

[Frank]

So it was already implemented. DERP

[Travelsonic]

So it was already implemented. DERP

The recalculation of karma for teamkilling yes, but there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.

IMO:

We should add a mechanism that does the following:

If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective. 

On top of that, add a mechanism that does this:  If a guy kills a Traitor as inno or detective, and the Traitors collectively have damaged or killed nobody, that person suffers karma loss - the intent being to deter or prevent first blood RDMing.     The only issue I see with this idea is if a T has a knife or C4 or Newton Launcher, etc, and shows it, or uses it, or tries to use it, then that is grounds to kill said person, to recognize that exception make it so if the Traitor was carrying a knife when he died, or had just thrown or used it, then this karma loss would not occur. 

An explanation of the above idea:

Round begins:

Inno v T

If Ts have damaged or killed nobody:

- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised:  No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?

It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.

[Eion Kilant 739]

-snip-

[Eion Kilant 739]

-snip-

- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised:  No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?

Brilliant, this is a step further than what I intended. Although for that bit included it should be if they bought something from the T store rather than if they used/have one.

_____________________________________________

there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.

We should add a mechanism that does the following:

If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective. 

It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.

That /\ is what I am suggesting! Thank you for atleast coming to that conclusion.

[Travelsonic]

Although for that bit included it should be if they bought something from the T store rather than if they used/have one.

IF the fact that emits the same sound as picking up gun/ammo - giving it away - is a part of the game/idea, which I reckon it is, absolutely.   Perhaps a function that picks up if the sound was played in the last X number of seconds? ms?

[Eion Kilant 739]

IF the fact that emits the same sound as picking up gun/ammo - giving it away - is a part of the game/idea, which I reckon it is, absolutely.   Perhaps a function that picks up if the sound was played in the last X number of seconds? ms?

While that would be a good idea it would be pretty hard to code into the game. I suppose if a disguiser was in use... It just doesn't seem that this would be a good way to punish RDMers. I have to stand with if the Traitor bought something that played the sound bit or had fired a single shot, but that could be used to grief karma...

Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.

What if a T who was kicked for being AFK was taken down 50-85 karma? Such a thing would be realy nice as those AFKers that end up being Ts drive me nuts.

[Hitman]

Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.

This suggestion would be nice.

[Travelsonic]

Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.

IMO it shouldn't be just relative to the round start - or rather, SOME of my idea should apply for the entirety of the round since people can be RDM'd as tater even after that [seemingly arbitrary] timeframe passes.