.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers
Support (Read Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Eion Kilant 739 on January 03, 2012, 11:33:22 AM
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I think i've come upon a suitable solution to reduce the amount of karma lost upon killing a RDMer. What if when you kill an Innocent your Karma drops the usual amount instantly, but it does not update the scoreboard and the damage dealt until after the round? This would cause people who kill RDMers (thinking they are Traitors) to lost less karma.
The desired result from this is to reassure people who would otherwise be too fearful to kill anyone who is called out. Thoughts/Opinions?
inb4 irony
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And then you have no chance to dampen the karma loss and now you're even more screwed than usual for making a mistake
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And then you have no chance to dampen the karma loss and now you're even more screwed than usual for making a mistake
Err, I'm not quite sure how this would happen. I'm not making any adjustments to the damage rati
So your talking about the diffrence between [player1] killing [Traitor&Innocent] the same exact way [player2] killed [Traitor&Innocent] only one has lower karma? Wouldn't the total gain/loss be equal?
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I don't believe I understand.
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If you're saying that the amount of damage you do is automatically updated, then no.
This will cause people to "accidently" hit someone, in which they'll most likely figure out whether they are Traitor or not.
and of course there will be those people who will run around crowbarring random people trying to figure out who the Traitor is. Especially with afks
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Tell me if this is correct in understanding the idea:
Person Y kills person Z, thinking he is T, and ends up being inno [and an rdmer]. At the end of the round, karma is added back in based on if the person the inno killed by mistake teamkilled, and how many times in a round the one mistakenly killed had actually teamkilled that round?
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I don't understand a single fuck.
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Tell me if this is correct in understanding the idea:
Person Y kills person Z, thinking he is T, and ends up being inno [and an rdmer]. At the end of the round, karma is added back in based on if the person the inno killed by mistake teamkilled, and how many times in a round the one mistakenly killed had actually teamkilled that round?
Hmm, that is another way of doing it but the same out come is reached. Yes... Infact, that could be easier to code in.
If you're saying that the amount of damage you do is automatically updated, then no.
I'm not.
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If the damage ratio doesnt change then the whole idea is stupid
If the damage ratio automatically changes, then the chance of regaining the loss karma is much lowered.
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If the damage ratio doesnt change then the whole idea is stupid
If the damage ratio automatically changes, then the chance of regaining the loss karma is much lowered.
What? The point is to reduce the amount of karma lost from killing an RDMer.
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What? The point is to reduce the amount of karma lost from killing an RDMer.
NO ONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
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I've read it about 10 times, and I still don't understand your proposition. Perhaps put it in steps, so we can understand better. For example:
1. Person Y kills Person Z
2. Person Z is actually a innocent
3. ...
4. And so on.
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I reserve this post. Gonna explain his idea when I wake up. Good bye ladies.
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why are all of his posts so hard to understand? :/
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I think he meant to say this:
1. player Z kills y x and v
2. they were innos
3.player A. kills Z beacuse he killed those 3 innos
4.player A loses less karma for killing Z beacuse he killed 3 innos
So I think he meant we should lose less karma for killing rdm'ers
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I think he meant to say this:
1. player Z kills y x and v
2. they were innos
3.player A. kills Z beacuse he killed those 3 innos
4.player A loses less karma for killing Z beacuse he killed 3 innos
So I think he meant we should lose less karma for killing rdm'ers
It already does that.
Player Z's karma after it's gone through it's equation will then go into the equation for Player A's karma.
so for example,
Player Z's previous karma = n ; his karma after being equated will = m
for player A's karma, it'll take the m karma, not the n, for the equation.
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I thought the calculating happens after the round
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I thought the calculating happens after the round
It does.
What I'm saying is that it calculates the first Z's karma before it calculates A's karma.
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It does.
What I'm saying is that it calculates the first Z's karma before it calculates A's karma.
Wait, so karma during rounds is
mindfuck'd.
So, like, everyone keeps the
wait, how can the system calculate the RDMer's karma first?
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Wait, so karma during rounds is
mindfuck'd.
So, like, everyone keeps the
wait, how can the system calculate the RDMer's karma first?
I don't know how it goes, but I would assume it takes the information chronologically, meaning it would calculate the first shot, then the second, then the third, and fourth, and etc.
From my knowing, it registers how much damage you do to either the Traitor's or Innocent's, not whether you kill them or not.
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I don't know how it goes, but I would assume it takes the information chronologically, meaning it would calculate the first shot, then the second, then the third, and fourth, and etc.
From my knowing, it registers how much damage you do to either the Traitor's or Innocent's, not whether you kill them or not.
Okay well, what the guy proposes is:
1. BigBlackCock is innocent and kills SmallGingerPenis and TinyAsiandick. He RDM'd, because they were all innocents, and he killed them for no reason.
2. BBC's karma is lowered after each shot, but the results aren't SHOWN until the end of the round. What does it mean? His karma has already been lowered, therefore the avenger of the RDMer will lose less karma than normally.
3. Damage is not changed. Only the karma numbers.
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*AHEM* Unless this server is set up differently, this is something that should be pointed out.
From the TTT gamemode website [http://ttt.badking.net/help#karma]:
[emphases are mine]
During a round, Karma is updated behind the scenes. As soon as you damage someone your Karma goes down. So if you are Innocent, and you see someone kill multiple other innocents, you can safely shoot him: he is either a traitor, or a teamkiller who will have low Karma.
The updated Karma is not displayed on the scoreboard and crosshair info, because that would let you easily figure out if someone is a Traitor. This is the difference between Base Karma (shown on scoreboard etc) and Live Karma (updated "live" during a round). After the end of the round, your Live Karma becomes your Base Karma, and you can see everyone's up-to-date Karma on the scoreboard.
At the end of each round, you regain Karma if you are below the maximum. If you did not damage a teammate that round, you will receive a significant bonus.
In general, your Karma will be okay as long as you don't consistently kill teammates every round.
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So it was already implemented. DERP
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So it was already implemented. DERP
The recalculation of karma for teamkilling yes, but there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.
IMO:
We should add a mechanism that does the following:
If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective.
On top of that, add a mechanism that does this: If a guy kills a Traitor as inno or detective, and the Traitors collectively have damaged or killed nobody, that person suffers karma loss - the intent being to deter or prevent first blood RDMing. The only issue I see with this idea is if a T has a knife or C4 or Newton Launcher, etc, and shows it, or uses it, or tries to use it, then that is grounds to kill said person, to recognize that exception make it so if the Traitor was carrying a knife when he died, or had just thrown or used it, then this karma loss would not occur.
An explanation of the above idea:
Round begins:
Inno v T
If Ts have damaged or killed nobody:
- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised: No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?
It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.
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- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised: No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?
Brilliant, this is a step further than what I intended. Although for that bit included it should be if they bought something from the T store rather than if they used/have one.
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there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.
We should add a mechanism that does the following:
If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective.
It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.
That /\ is what I am suggesting! Thank you for atleast coming to that conclusion.
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Although for that bit included it should be if they bought something from the T store rather than if they used/have one.
IF the fact that emits the same sound as picking up gun/ammo - giving it away - is a part of the game/idea, which I reckon it is, absolutely. Perhaps a function that picks up if the sound was played in the last X number of seconds? ms?
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IF the fact that emits the same sound as picking up gun/ammo - giving it away - is a part of the game/idea, which I reckon it is, absolutely. Perhaps a function that picks up if the sound was played in the last X number of seconds? ms?
While that would be a good idea it would be pretty hard to code into the game. I suppose if a disguiser was in use... It just doesn't seem that this would be a good way to punish RDMers. I have to stand with if the Traitor bought something that played the sound bit or had fired a single shot, but that could be used to grief karma...
Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.
What if a T who was kicked for being AFK was taken down 50-85 karma? Such a thing would be realy nice as those AFKers that end up being Ts drive me nuts.
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Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.
This suggestion would be nice.
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Ok, if a Traitor has not bought a T weapon, has not fired a shot, and has not picked up a prop within the first (24, 28, or 34?) seconds the killer should suffer half (2/3rds?) of that he would lose if he killed an Innocent. I think that will work.
IMO it shouldn't be just relative to the round start - or rather, SOME of my idea should apply for the entirety of the round since people can be RDM'd as tater even after that [seemingly arbitrary] timeframe passes.
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IMO it shouldn't be just relative to the round start - or rather, SOME of my idea should apply for the entirety of the round since people can be RDM'd as tater even after that [seemingly arbitrary] timeframe passes.
True, but most of the RDMing happens early in the round. We don't want some asshole abusing the system to get the other person to lose karma. EX: Picking up gun used to kill player by other T and then making it look like he killed the person, causing a drop in the killer's karma.
I don't want a system that could be used to Karma-grief, I want one that gets back at RDMers.
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True, but most of the RDMing happens early in the round.
Even so, if we make it so it is only as the start of the round, we miss out on contingencies - in this case, RDMs in the round past that point - that IMO of course should not be missed.
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I think i've come upon a suitable solution to reduce the amount of karma lost upon killing a RDMer. What if when you kill an Innocent your Karma drops the usual amount instantly, but it does not update the scoreboard and the damage dealt until after the round? This would cause people who kill RDMers (thinking they are Traitors) to lost less karma.
The desired result from this is to reassure people who would otherwise be too fearful to kill anyone who is called out. Thoughts/Opinions?
inb4 irony
No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. :P
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No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. :P
See my post on the previous page. :P
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No, this is bad. Instead, the karma lost less when a RDMer starts to randomly shoot you first (that time the system will automatically calculate and drops his/her karma), then when you killed him, the karma you shall lost will be calculated and shall be lesser.
I wish all of you know what I am actually talking about. :P
Wat. If you actualy want us to know what you are talking about please tell us what it is or where we can find it.
This thread is about nerfing karma lost when you kill an RDMer who has killed multiple teammates (Such as a Psyco Detective). The fear of losing a ton of one's hard-earned karma has caused alot of problems on the TTT server. If you can find a problem in that please point it out so the final idea will be improved.
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But seriously, something NEEDS to be done about the karma system.
If I accidentally shoot something like a propane tank [many times smaller than an explosive barrel], which explodes, then that makes an explosive barrel go off, and that kills one person, is that really worthy of losing 600 FUCKING KARMA?
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But seriously, something NEEDS to be done about the karma system.
If I accidentally shoot something like a propane tank [many times smaller than an explosive barrel], which explodes, then that makes an explosive barrel go off, and that kills one person, is that really worthy of losing 600 FUCKING KARMA?
Don't shoot propane tanks.
I hear those explode.
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Don't shoot propane tanks.
I hear those explode.
:thumbsdown: simple minded thinking that fails to address the basic fact that the ideal situation isn't always [resent, and that accidents happen.
Unless I'm tater, I don't intentionally, but when you have a gunfight going on with a good number of people, and you don't know WHO it may be, and you're being shot at, and people simultaneously baiting others with the barrels, you'd have to be derping hard to think it can't happen accidentally - and should be treated the same as intentionally blowing them up with people next to them.
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I generally don't shoot when there's a gigantic clusterfuck of killing going on.
If you shoot into a gunfight, you're ASKING to lose karma.
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I generally don't shoot when there's a gigantic clusterfuck of killing going on.
If you shoot into a gunfight, you're ASKING to lose karma.
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You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?
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You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?
I understand that you're not content with the amount of karma lost, but I'm taking this opportunity to point out that the best way to reduce the amount of karma lost is simply not shooting.
I'm aware that accidents do happen, and that sometimes you lose more karma than you should, but the situation that you're describing could easily be avoided.
If 5-10 people are in a giant group, and everyone is shooting everyone, and there are explosive props nearby, you just shouldn't even fire your weapon at all. It's a horrible idea, and you have no case in saying that it's unfair that you lost karma because you blew up a barrel.
However, if someone tries to RDM you and you're quicker in killing them (Hence reducing the amount of karma THEY lose, and maximizing the amount YOU lose), that's a perfectly valid point.
Basic common sense from real life applies in TTT. Don't shoot when you're likely to miss. Even better yet, don't shoot.
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You do understand the issue is not with losing karma, but HOW MUCH, right?
Correct. The thread is about loosing less karma when you kill RDMers. Such as for every teammate they kill that round the teammate who killed them looses less karma from that specific kill. In theory it would help stop players from being to scared to shoot anyone.
But there is no way to dampen karma loss for such unique situations. We can't have people simulating an "accident" and killing someone with less karma loss so they can do it again.
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The recalculation of karma for teamkilling yes, but there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.
IMO:
We should add a mechanism that does the following:
If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective.
On top of that, add a mechanism that does this: If a guy kills a Traitor as inno or detective, and the Traitors collectively have damaged or killed nobody, that person suffers karma loss - the intent being to deter or prevent first blood RDMing. The only issue I see with this idea is if a T has a knife or C4 or Newton Launcher, etc, and shows it, or uses it, or tries to use it, then that is grounds to kill said person, to recognize that exception make it so if the Traitor was carrying a knife when he died, or had just thrown or used it, then this karma loss would not occur.
An explanation of the above idea:
Round begins:
Inno v T
If Ts have damaged or killed nobody:
- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised: No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?
It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.
What if the traitor is obviously trying to shoot a guy but missed? So killing him will cause karma loss?
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What if the traitor is obviously trying to shoot a guy but missed? So killing him will cause karma loss?
Good question. I'm thinking of a revision to my idea to take that into account.
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*Checks thread*
*notices no moderator or admin has posted*
*assumes no moderator or admin has seen thread*
*bumps thread* My apologies, I feel as though this will save players alot of karma trouble and I'd like it to atleast be considered to see if it would be for the better.
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it doesn't matter anymore, servers are going down anyways so yeah
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it doesn't matter anymore, servers are going down anyways so yeah
That doesn't mean that the suggestions can't have a trial run on the temp servers.
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That doesn't mean that the suggestions can't have a trial run on the temp servers.
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heehheheehhe forgot about that, but anyways who would re-code the karma system?
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heehheheehhe forgot about that, but anyways who would re-code the karma system?
Well some suggestions (like the get karma for killing inno's as T) can be easily done with very little modification.
Then again, I won't be hosting the TTT so adfhhfdsg
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Well some suggestions (like the get karma for killing inno's as T) can be easily done with very little modification.
Then again, I won't be hosting the TTT so adfhhfdsg
sorry for derailing this thread, but can you host a flood server? i kind of miss the old days
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*Checks thread*
*notices no moderator or admin has posted*
*assumes no moderator or admin has seen thread*
*bumps thread* My apologies, I feel as though this will save players alot of karma trouble and I'd like it to atleast be considered to see if it would be for the better.
Moderators and admins are the same thing.
Just saying.
And we have seen it. It's up to coolz, not the admins.
My personal opinion on it is still that perma karma is perfectly fine. I never had any trouble with it at all.
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Moderators and admins are the same thing.
Just saying.
And we have seen it. It's up to coolz, not the admins.
My personal opinion on it is still that perma karma is perfectly fine. I never had any trouble with it at all.
The problem isn't, IMO, the permanent karma, but how karma loss is decided, how fast one can gain back karma, etc.
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My personal opinion on it is still that perma karma is perfectly fine. I never had any trouble with it at all.
...you don't even play TTT.
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Moderators and admins are the same thing.
Just saying.
And we have seen it. It's up to coolz, not the admins.
My personal opinion on it is still that perma karma is perfectly fine. I never had any trouble with it at all.
What? Atleast read the thread!
I was suggesting that when an Innocent kills an Innocent or Detective who has killed two or more teammates he/she loses less karma.
How do I know that this is not calculated? Let's say an aimbotter comes on and kills 5 Innocents (and no Ts). The aimbotter had 1000 karma at the start of the round. Now lets say he is killed by a fellow Innocent the same round. The Innocent loses the amount of karma one would if they had RDMed someone with 1000 karma. What I am suggesting is for that Innocent who killed the aimbotter to lose less karma for each one of the aimbotter's betrayals.
How would this work? Well if someone has 2 or more betrayals then all of those betrayals are calculated into how much LESS KARMA the killer (who was of the same team) loses. The less-karma-lost will not be calculated if the killer has only 1 betrayal.
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....It ALREADY does that.
In all my time of playing TTT and killing idiots who killed other innocents, you STILL lose a minimum of 100-200 karma if you kill somebody even if they already rdm'd a few innocents/detectives.
The karma IS calculated behind the scenes and the effects of it are not applied until the new round starts.
Example:
Player 2 kills player 3 and 4, they are both innocent. Player 2's karma has gone down considerably already BEHIND THE SCENES.
Player 1 kills player 2, player 1 loses 100-200 MINIMUM behind the scenes.
This is done to prevent people from RDM'ing people who killed those innocents based on an INTELLECTUAL ASSUMPTION or WITNESS. Thus preventing them from killing the traitors and giving them a portion of their karma back.
The innocent who killed the one who rdm'd the others will still lose karma, but NOT AS MUCH unless you damaged others. This is what I have read about the TTT info AND experienced in my gameplay.
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Well I completely understand this and agree, It would be most helpful :) :thumbsup:
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This is done to prevent people from RDM'ing people who killed those innocents based on an INTELLECTUAL ASSUMPTION or WITNESS. Thus preventing them from killing the traitors and giving them a portion of their karma back.
Heheheh, intellectual assumptions + ttt playing as of late = paradox.
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...you don't even play TTT.
Time zones, young one. He is on it every bit as much as you.