.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) > Discussion
New Gender Options for Facebook Users
ursus:
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---Is being fat a social construct?
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Actually, since you asked, in a sense it is. "Fat" is a subjective judgment based on someone's weight, which is just a number to describe the weight of your body. If someone has 1% body fat but their bone structure is so large that they weigh 300 pounds, are they fat? If they are, on whose authority? Being overweight/diabetic to the point that it affects your health is not a social construct, but "fat" is simply a judgment passed down through the media to make people spend more money on diet programs and gym memberships. There is no social or cultural benefit to insulting people based on their weight.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---The tolerance groups want to impose their views on us so it's only logical that I retaliate in the same way.
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How do you define "imposing?" Is asking you to acknowledge their existence and allow them to live peacefully "imposing their views?"
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---It's becoming debatable not because science thinks it's necessary, but because the very same "oppressed minority" groups want to change it so that it would suit them because right now some facts are "racist" by their definition.
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You do know we're discussing gender, right? What does racism have to do with this?
You talk about minority groups trying to make their own lives tolerable as if that's a bad thing.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---A place as famous as Oxford university will obviously share politically correct views. Also the quote says that it is being used by people in this way instead of what it actually means in science and to be honest I rarely ever see people refer to genders as social or cultural constructs.
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You're literally dismissing the dictionary on the basis that you think they're trying to be "politically correct," another buzzword that holds no real meaning. Not offending people isn't a crime, it's just an act of human decency.
You rarely see people refer to gender as a social/cultural construct because you refuse to acknowledge them. Do you think that /pol/ and reddit are the only two sources of real human opinions on the planet? I don't see many people complaining about Jews or social degenerates because I don't associate myself with those communities.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---There is nothing valid about his logic on gender.
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Prove it. Bring up even once piece of concrete evidence against my point. Please.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---And seriously I've already said many times that it is not the first time I hear arguments that are like the ones gamefreak has posted,
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That doesn't change anything. This sentence is unnecessary.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---I'm not going to sit there and put my honest effort into refuting his points because this is a subject that doesn't really require much explanation,
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Really? If it didn't require explanation then I wouldn't have to ask you to explain it. You're refusing to reveal the facts behind your reasoning, which is not a valid logical structure I've heard of.
--- Quote from: Prox on February 17, 2014, 10:21:42 AM ---I would probably be literally repeating my previous posts and for what? For yet another pointless wall of text that I would have to use the same arguments to refute because really that would be all it would take.
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If it's so easy and you've done it so many times before, show me the posts. I'll argue against those too. You're still refusing to actually answer to anything I claim.
--- Quote from: Cake Faice on February 17, 2014, 10:37:21 AM ---Muh highly qualified medical physician with decades of experience and harvard degrees doesn't know a thing about muh body.
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Read the first paragraph of this post.
Cake Faice:
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---Actually, since you asked, in a sense it is. "Fat" is a subjective judgment based on someone's weight, which is just a number to describe the weight of your body. If someone has 1% body fat but their bone structure is so large that they weigh 300 pounds, are they fat? If they are, on whose authority? Being overweight/diabetic to the point that it affects your health is not a social construct, but "fat" is simply a judgment passed down through the media to make people spend more money on diet programs and gym memberships. There is no social or cultural benefit to insulting people based on their weight.
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Gamefreak, being fat isn't a social construct. Weight means a whole lot more than a number. Obviously if they're 7 feet tall and weight 300 pounds with most being muscle mass, they're not fat. But if you're under 6 foot and weight 300lbs that isn't just muscle mass, you're fat/morbidly obese, and you will begin having health problems.
You're right, she isn't fat, she doesn't need to go to the gym to spend money of fat and diet programs.
·UηİŦ··:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)I bothered to read though this entire thread, every single line and every single argumentative statement/constructive debate/citation/derisive paragraph/etc. While I was doing that, I went from wanting to post, to not wanting to post, to following what everyone was saying, and then just not wanting to continue reading. This thread has literally begun to make me feel liek poop(?), and I can't really determine what it is, but somewhere along the way something just made me so discontented I just... don't even know. Maybe I'm just being silly. I don't even know if that's the right word.
I'm pretty open-minded/unbiased about the subject and what people have to say about it, and on the first page I was going to post a sentence or two about x or y just because two cents and blah blah discussion, but there were a lot of valid points in this thread in respect to the subject itself... and then there were some silly things afterwards IMO, which felt weird because it was getting really damned serious and people were making some nice, if not concurrent/more-or-less equal points for/against whatever (and then suddenly nope and then a mixture of somewhat vehement personal statements and I don't even know anymore). Also, because I know everyone in this thread isn't "actually retarded" at all, a lot of you are pretty damn smart to begin with. An example is when Prox typed for us:
--- Quote from: Prox on February 15, 2014, 03:14:13 PM ---I know I'm going to use a strawman for this
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When I have seen him type things that had little to no logical fallacies to begin with. Why? What is the point of continuing this thread if...?
pls
I don't know what hasn't been said yet that I can actually say besides anything that isn't really related or relevant to the topic itself. I think maybe I really just don't want to say anything at all. On top of that, to me it feels like we suddenly went sideways and now we're alternating between a whole bunch of other unrelated things loaded with satire/contempt/penitence and related things being given little to no attention besides the occasional reply/sincerity/seriousness... wat.
Suddenly, nope. I don't want to continue, and I am going to try to forget that this thread happened.
I figured I may as well post something, especially because now I'm kind of just wat'ing deep down inside. I probably didn't even need to post anything to begin with.
tl;dr This thread actually made me a little angry, not because of the context but the structuring of the thread, and how much of it is making me word I don't even know right now. I don't even think angry is the right word (it probably isn't). Maybe it's for nothing, but I don't want to read this thread anymore and yet I might continue while regret having done so. I can't say anything that hasn't been said/can be said better, but I posted something because I originally intended to, and felt like I'd be cheating myself if I didn't post.
ursus:
--- Quote from: Cake Faice on February 17, 2014, 10:52:19 AM ---Gamefreak, being fat isn't a social construct. Weight means a whole lot more than a number. Obviously if they're 7 feet tall and weight 300 pounds with most being muscle mass, they're not fat. But if you're under 6 foot and weight 300lbs that isn't just muscle mass, you're fat/morbidly obese, and you will begin having health problems.
You're right, she isn't fat, she doesn't need to go to the gym to spend money of fat and diet programs.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't referring to extremes. I'm talking about differences so minor that nobody in their right mind would care, but people will attack them for not being thin enough. The woman in your picture is definitely overweight from a medical perspective. It was just a side-point I decided to bring up in response to prox's example.
Prox:
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---Actually, since you asked, in a sense it is. "Fat" is a subjective judgment based on someone's weight, which is just a number to describe the weight of your body. If someone has 1% body fat but their bone structure is so large that they weigh 300 pounds, are they fat? If they are, on whose authority? Being overweight/diabetic to the point that it affects your health is not a social construct, but "fat" is simply a judgment passed down through the media to make people spend more money on diet programs and gym memberships. There is no social or cultural benefit to insulting people based on their weight.
--- End quote ---
There is nothing wrong in media or other people encouraging overweight people to start losing weight. Being overweight isn't even healthy to begin with so it is good that society wants everyone to seek perfection because that way we can progress faster.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---How do you define "imposing?" Is asking you to acknowledge their existence and allow them to live peacefully "imposing their views?"
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Implementing changes trough political pressure against people's will or using mainstream media as a propaganda machine to persuade people into it. There are already plenty of laws that cover the discrimination issue plus many of the laws that defend the rights of majority also defend the rights of minority. You can't beat, rob, kill etc. minorities, they really do have enough laws that let them live just fine, except they often like to think that they're being targeted because they're different when often it just happens that they were just simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'm obviously not saying that it is like that all the time. Also it is worth mentioning that not all laws that apply to majority may be compatible with minorities.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---You do know we're discussing gender, right? What does racism have to do with this?
You talk about minority groups trying to make their own lives tolerable as if that's a bad thing.
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I've used racism as an example. Also if minorities want to be tolerated they must live up to the moral standards of everyone else instead of "LOOK AT ME GUISE IM GAY".
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---You're literally dismissing the dictionary on the basis that you think they're trying to be "politically correct," another buzzword that holds no real meaning. Not offending people isn't a crime, it's just an act of human decency.
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I've used the term and then I also provided more detailed explanation about the Oxford's definition of gender.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---You rarely see people refer to gender as a social/cultural construct because you refuse to acknowledge them. Do you think that /pol/ and reddit are the only two sources of real human opinions on the planet? I don't see many people complaining about Jews or social degenerates because I don't associate myself with those communities.
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Sources of real human opinions I've seen: real life, biology lessons, all the documentary about animals and nature that I've seen, youtube, almost every place on the Internet I've ever been, and /pol/ too.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 17, 2014, 10:47:32 AM ---
Prove it. Bring up even once piece of concrete evidence against my point. Please.
That doesn't change anything. This sentence is unnecessary.
Really? If it didn't require explanation then I wouldn't have to ask you to explain it. You're refusing to reveal the facts behind your reasoning, which is not a valid logical structure I've heard of.
If it's so easy and you've done it so many times before, show me the posts. I'll argue against those too. You're still refusing to actually answer to anything I claim.
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Please refer at my posts on the first page of this thread for more info.
--- Quote from: ·UηİŦ··© on February 17, 2014, 11:06:51 AM ---When I have seen him type things that had little to no logical fallacies to begin with. Why? What is the point of continuing this thread if...?
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I used that to show how simply gender can be defined, or at least how pretty much everyone in here defines it.
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