.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) > Discussion
New Gender Options for Facebook Users
Prox:
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:06:42 PM ---does anyone on this forum actually know like, anything about gender
except maybe xrain
--- End quote ---
Do you know anything about it yourself?
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:06:42 PM ---please tell me you're being sarcastic here
also, although there are about 50 new terms a lot of them mean the same thing
it's mostly a matter of letting people be more comfortable with themselves in as many public settings as possible, a lot of people genuinely don't identify with one gender or another because of a variety of things like hormone imbalances, past trauma, etc.
at least look up gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder on wikipedia before you start speaking so authoritatively on this, I would consider that much to be the minimum amount of information before you should even form an opinion on this
--- End quote ---
Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with certain illnesses/disorders means that they're different gender? Perhaps you'd also agree that gender is a "social construct"?
Frank:
Are you saying gender is not a social construct? Because it definitely is. It's about classifying people into their social roles they fulfill. Males are considered as "strong, working, an authority, fatherly, limiting", and females are "delicate, motherly, emotional, tender". Also females are supposed to wear dresses and skirts, and men shirts and pants. But what happens if a man feels comfortable in skirts and decides to start using them? Now, he doesn't fit into the male/man role he's suppoed to be in. What happens if, also, he is not as "authoritative" or "fatherly" as he "should" be, and rather feels motherly? He would get buried in shit by people who think he should not be like that. That's genders and their limitations very shortly explained.
ursus:
--- Quote from: Prox on February 15, 2014, 01:23:48 PM ---Do you know anything about it yourself?
Are you seriously trying to tell me that people with certain illnesses/disorders means that they're different gender? Perhaps you'd also agree that gender is a "social construct"?
--- End quote ---
a forum full of only cis people is about as qualified to discuss gender as a forum of only white people are qualified to discuss race
the only reason sex is related to gender at all is because your endocrine system produces hormones and reproductive cells, and those hormones affect the growth of your body and your brain as well as influencing the way you think, act, and respond to outside stimuli
anything else that affects the growth of your brain can have a bearing on gender, like social environment and past trauma
gender is not fully a social construct, but it spawns many social constructs like gender roles, which can both influence and be influenced by gender. this essentially means that while gender exists without social constructs, social constructs can modify it over time
so yes, if someone has a natural hormone imbalance or a certain upbringing/set of experiences that causes the way gender forms in their mind to be outside of the traditional binary of male and female or simply on the other side of the binary (hence the latin prefix trans- being used), they can absolutely be considered a different gender
since these differences can come in a lot of forms, it's to be expected that there would be multiple terms for multiple variations. for example, genderfluid and genderqueer are two different things, but can also be considered a sub-set of nonbinary because genderqueer people's identities is never distinctly male or female, and a genderfluid individual's gender can change over time
the issue with this is that when your sex and gender line up perfectly, (hence the term "cisgender") it's hard to see them as two distinctly separate entities and so being told that they can separate or change independently of one another is hard to believe for the overwhelming majority of people
nobody's even asking you to change your own life to any noticeable extent, all that's being asked of you is to acknowledge that differences exist and that this particular minority (and all of them, really) deserves the same rights and privileges as you do
๖Ϝцzsioᴎ:
-snip snap-
Prox:
Good God I have never thought that a day would come when someone would use such terms as cis-gender and genderqueer seriously on these forums.
--- Quote from: Frank on February 15, 2014, 01:43:49 PM ---Are you saying gender is not a social construct? Because it definitely is. It's about classifying people into their social roles they fulfill. Males are considered as "strong, working, an authority, fatherly, limiting", and females are "delicate, motherly, emotional, tender". Also females are supposed to wear dresses and skirts, and men shirts and pants. But what happens if a man feels comfortable in skirts and decides to start using them? Now, he doesn't fit into the male/man role he's suppoed to be in. What happens if, also, he is not as "authoritative" or "fatherly" as he "should" be, and rather feels motherly? He would get buried in shit by people who think he should not be like that. That's genders and their limitations very shortly explained.
--- End quote ---
It definitely isn't. Each gender has different physique as well as different hormones which directly result in males being "strong, working, an authority, fatherly, limiting" and females being "delicate, motherly, emotional, tender".
Young boys play with toy cars and girls play with dolls not because they're being thought to do this because it is their "gender role" but because that's what their own mind which is effected by certain hormones tell them to.
You can also just take a look at the animal kingdom too, even the genders of the least intelligent animals operate the same way and share same differences between them because of different hormones.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:53:15 PM ---a forum full of only cis people is about as qualified to discuss gender as a forum of only white people are qualified to discuss race
--- End quote ---
If anything, a room full of "cis-people" is the most qualified to discuss gender.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:53:15 PM ---the only reason sex is related to gender at all is because your endocrine system produces hormones and reproductive cells, and those hormones affect the growth of your body and your brain as well as influencing the way you think, act, and respond to outside stimuli
--- End quote ---
This is the only reason you need to know in order be sure that there can be only two genders.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:53:15 PM ---so yes, if someone has a natural hormone imbalance or a certain upbringing/set of experiences that causes the way gender forms in their mind to be outside of the traditional binary of male and female or simply on the other side of the binary (hence the latin prefix trans- being used), they can absolutely be considered a different gender
--- End quote ---
No they can't, the can be considered as having a disorder.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:53:15 PM ---since these differences can come in a lot of forms, it's to be expected that there would be multiple terms for multiple variations. for example, genderfluid and genderqueer are two different things, but can also be considered a sub-set of nonbinary because genderqueer people's identities is never distinctly male or female, and a genderfluid individual's gender can change over time
the issue with this is that when your sex and gender line up perfectly, (hence the term "cisgender") it's hard to see them as two distinctly separate entities and so being told that they can separate or change independently of one another is hard to believe for the overwhelming majority of people
--- End quote ---
I really don't even know how I should even properly respond to this argument of yours. The fact that gender cannot change is obvious even to a 12 year old.
--- Quote from: ursus on February 15, 2014, 01:53:15 PM ---nobody's even asking you to change your own life to any noticeable extent, all that's being asked of you is to acknowledge that differences exist and that this particular minority (and all of them, really) deserves the same rights and privileges as you do
--- End quote ---
Do you really think that it's a good idea to let minorities change our definition of things just so it would appeal to them? The rights of minorities should be considered and respected but the rights of majority shouldn't be questioned.
How can people not realize and understand something as basic as the fact that there are only two genders? I know I'm going to use a strawman for this but seriously this is as basic as the fact that Earth revolves around the Sun. I just cannot comprehend how some people think that there are more genders then just male and female, this is just beyond stupid.
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