.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) > Discussion

[Intelligent Discussion] Why the rNd rank system is broken.

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Infinimint:

--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---Too lazy to go through and add all the quotes but I addressed everything you said from start to finish.

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And I appreciate that.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---I am aware of who you speak to on TeamSpeak obviously as it includes me. You being a moderator on forums means nothing in this situations as it's not our forum. I have also been a moderator on several other forums, several other gaming servers but the difference is that I realize not everyone or every server has to function the same to be successful. I'm also not saying having experience in the game has anything to do with the forums, I'm implying that the ranks are focused around the servers, not the forums. At least that's my understanding of it. I believe the only reason coolz even has ranks is to manage the servers and that the moderation on the forums just came second because it makes sense. You get admin in the server, you get admin on the forums since someone has to help him with both jobs and he already trusts that individual.

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Fair enough.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---A lot of what I said is directed at your lack of experience with the actually community istelf and the community WITHIN the servers, not just TeamSpeak. You not understanding goals and expectations we may have obviously will make it more difficult for you to make an appropriate suggestion. Not saying that you can't suggest anything, but you've come across extremely opinionated in your first post and I personally feel like you're nearly insulting what's in place and not considering that there may be reasons for it.

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Insults were not my intent, if you or anyone felt insulted, I apologize.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---I understand what your argument is, I simply disagree with it. People can apply for admin all they want. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to. Those people are simply not accepted.
As for the inactivity:
http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php?topic=16744.msg219476#msg219476Inactivity is obviously not something that is wanted by ranked members and they sometimes do get demoted for that, but when you think of it, who cares? It's not their job. Meant to include that in my first post. Though I actually planned to leave my first post to 3 sentences then it turned into that, oh well. As I was saying, the worst thing inactivity does is maybe removes some wanted help. That can't be prevented and will always happen. At least those people who are inactive will actually maybe stop by every now and then and still be able to contribute a small something, so it's not totally wasted. If they're demoted for inactivity though, the only difference is that there is a very small amount of help potentially being lost. One way or another, not a big deal or a priority imo. That's how I view it though, none of what I'm saying is necessarily coolz' view of course.

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I should have been more specific about inactivity. I meant inactivity in management of the forum/server itself. A post here and there is often considered active, however, I'm referring to actually fulfilling responsibilities. Moreover, I'm also referring to people who drop in, apply, get the rank, and then go back to being inactive.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---I did read you entire post. I disagree with your suggestion, sorry. I would challenge you to give examples of these people but I don't want to pull others into this unfortunately. I feel adding a bunch of pretty coloured names to people isn't necessary. If they're contributing stuff to be known for that's cool, they'll already be known for it. People are promoted when it enables them to do more with the rank and capabilities they have.

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And it's perfectly fine to disagree, it is a discussion after all. And I agree that it is unwise to list names, so I didn't. As for "pretty colored names", I didn't mean a separate rank for literally everything. Rather a specific rank of Contributor so that they don't apply for Admin and gain/request a bunch of unnecessary permissions that they didn't need in the first place.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---RND is not a professional business, organization, or any of the sorts. We can modify the term admin to our needs, as does nearly every gaming servers, community, etc. Your priorities in this are simply different than what I believe coolz' are.

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I was just giving the literal definition.



--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---The point is that coolz has his own reasons for wanting the ranks the way they are. His reasons are different than yours, as I see it.

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And that's perfectly fine. This is only a suggestion, not a demand.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---That's fine, your big changes actually do nothing to solve inactivity. It's simple to demote inactive players but innecessary work at the same time, imo.

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It solves inactivity by not giving inconsistent people the role of Administrator. It would also decrease work since not as many people would have to apply for Admin since a more appropriate rank would be available. Therefore, there would be less discussion and debate over who should and shouldn't be an Administrator.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---I'm aware of what you're implying but I'm trying to avoid saying anything that might offend other people or get other people involved in what I'm saying so I'll address that to you personally when I can.

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Alright.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---I don't see how that's wishful thinking at all. All I'm saying is that the rank system is suitable for what we need. If the servers had a different player base and an extremely larger amount of players, then I would be urging for changes to be made as well and I have in the past. I also recently made a suggestion to disconnect the rank between admin in-game and moderator on the forums. In the past it's been a major issue deciding when to promote because of the different people on the servers opposed to the forums/TS. So I can agree with that to a degree, but I also realized that it's not really all that important. If we were in urgent need of admins, then I think it'd help a lot, but I don't think we are.

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Yes, sorry about that I was actually being sarcastic, sarcasm doesn't translate so well in text :\

I was trying to say that in order to gain a larger player base, you should prepare for one.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---Aggressive doesn't mean "i called him a name." I put no words in your mouth lol, if I felt your post was aggressive that's my opinion, not yours'?
It was blatant sarcasm. I also didn't say they haven't been successful for 3 years, I just said the playerbase was different. More recently the number of players dropped.

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Well, when you said, "It'd be nice if you weren't to just assume that we're all a bunch of morons that need guidance because they clearly don't know how to run a successful gaming community.", it sure sounded like you were implying that that was what I said/meant. I realize that it was sarcastic, I was just addressing it. You didn't say it was unsuccessful, however, when you said, "If the servers were still as they were 3 years ago" it made it apparent that there has a been an obvious decline.


--- Quote from: Sabb on September 10, 2013, 04:42:48 PM ---This isn't a shitstorm. I like discussing/debating stuff with people. I'll be honest, your post didn't exactly sit well with me, but I'm not angered or trying to anger you or anything of that sorts. I'm just adressing what you've posted with my opinion. Even if I was absolutely okay with how you addressed your suggestion I'd still be challenging it. Do believe that's generally what happens with suggestions.

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Sorry if it sounded like that's what I was implying, I wasn't calling your post a shitstorm, I was just saying that they start very easily. I apologize if my post was worded in a fashion that brought you discontent, I suppose that it's just my writing style. I'm not trying to be offensive in any manner, if you find anything I say offensive please let me know so that I can fix it.

On a sidenote, I appreciate the time you've taken to type all of that out and to challenge the suggestion. I'll admit, it isn't the best suggestion in the world. It's more of an idea than anything, but I figured it would help spark discussion and veridication to the ranking system.

Infinimint:

--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---Every rank has been individually configured specifically for the duties that I think that rank should be qualified to have, based upon the people who currently hold that rank.

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Understandable, this is only a suggestion, nothing more.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---There are badges to notify how the user has contributed to the forums or community in general and a stats system to see how active the player is over time.

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Yes, there are badges, and while they are a great idea with great potential, I feel they don't yet fully serve their purpose. Unless you consider your main operating system, favorite pet, or a non-rNd game that you play a contribution, the only real contributions I've seen are Developer (rNd-only), Owner (only held by you), Badge creator (only held by Marie), Old Member (only attainable by older members), and Donator (requires payment).

For a newer member, the only one that is attainable that shows actual contribution is Donator. What kind of badge did CryptoKid get for the work he did creating that typographic fish logo? What about all the sprites that Marie made? Or all the comics that have been contributed by members? The list goes on and those people have nothing to truly show for it besides the creation itself.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---As with any place, rNd is different and has different requirements for operation that have led me to tailor the privileges accordingly and also in response to players' suggestions over the years.

Many things have been tried and I am always open to suggestions but the current system satisfies the requirements for running the community.

--- End quote ---
This is just another one of those many suggestions.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---Adding more labels in between doesn't necessarily solve the problem if there is one.

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It may not solve anything, but it could definitely serve as a preventative measure.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---The Admins that you see here are a different kind of "Admin" and may not coincide with the label that is referenced in your head, but with a little time here I think it will become clear to the responsibilities of each title. This also applies to VIPs and Super Admins and Regulars.

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I suppose so.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---While there are many admin applications, I am the one who makes the final decision. I do look at suggestions and converse with my current administration team about each one long before I make any decisions. I do this because this rank has a lot of potential, and I need to be able to have a certain high level of trust with the individual in order to rely on them for certain contributions and administration.

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Understandable, and that's the way it should be. I 100% agree.


--- Quote from: coolzeldad on September 10, 2013, 04:44:03 PM ---I do not base my decisions upon popularity in a group and I consult many opinions to avoid the "circlejerk" influence you are describing that many other communities suffer from.

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I notice and appreciate that, I'm only creating this suggestion because I feel it could prevent it even more so.

Sabb:

--- Quote from: Infinimint on September 10, 2013, 05:52:40 PM ---And I appreciate that.
Fair enough.
Insults were not my intent, if you or anyone felt insulted, I apologize.
I should have been more specific about inactivity. I meant inactivity in management of the forum/server itself. A post here and there is often considered active, however, I'm referring to actually fulfilling responsibilities. Moreover, I'm also referring to people who drop in, apply, get the rank, and then go back to being inactive.
And it's perfectly fine to disagree, it is a discussion after all. And I agree that it is unwise to list names, so I didn't. As for "pretty colored names", I didn't mean a separate rank for literally everything. Rather a specific rank of Contributor so that they don't apply for Admin and gain/request a bunch of unnecessary permissions that they didn't need in the first place.
I was just giving the literal definition.

And that's perfectly fine. This is only a suggestion, not a demand.
It solves inactivity by not giving inconsistent people the role of Administrator. It would also decrease work since not as many people would have to apply for Admin since a more appropriate rank would be available. Therefore, there would be less discussion and debate over who should and shouldn't be an Administrator.
Alright.
Yes, sorry about that I was actually being sarcastic, sarcasm doesn't translate so well in text :\

I was trying to say that in order to gain a larger player base, you should prepare for one.
Well, when you said, "It'd be nice if you weren't to just assume that we're all a bunch of morons that need guidance because they clearly don't know how to run a successful gaming community.", it sure sounded like you were implying that that was what I said/meant. I realize that it was sarcastic, I was just addressing it. You didn't say it was unsuccessful, however, when you said, "If the servers were still as they were 3 years ago" it made it apparent that there has a been an obvious decline.
Sorry if it sounded like that's what I was implying, I wasn't calling your post a shitstorm, I was just saying that they start very easily. I apologize if my post was worded in a fashion that brought you discontent, I suppose that it's just my writing style. I'm not trying to be offensive in any manner, if you find anything I say offensive please let me know so that I can fix it.

On a sidenote, I appreciate the time you've taken to type all of that out and to challenge the suggestion. I'll admit, it isn't the best suggestion in the world. It's more of an idea than anything, but I figured it would help spark discussion and veridication to the ranking system.

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Understood. I sometimes have similar issues with how I approach comments I make, which is why I may be critical of it to you as well as I'm trying to avoid it.
All suggestions are appreciated of course. There are also boards hidden where suggestions have been made and the like. Just saying cause I'm not sure what you do and don't know. Things like this have always been discussed though.

coolzeldad:
Yes there are badges left to create, multiple were discussed including designer ( something for cryptokid for example, or even roach for his member banners, etc. ) and map maker ( something for jimonions, yellow killer, or the countless others who have made maps for the community ).

There is a badge suggestion thread here for you as well. http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php?topic=16104.0

Prox:
Maybe a contributor rank or something like that wouldn't be all that bad.

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