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Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons

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CodeKyuubi:
The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.

Prox:

--- Quote from: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 09:51:54 AM ---The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

--- End quote ---
Israel was created in a territory that belonged to Muslims and they didn't agreed The Partition Plan in the first place.

--- Quote ---The 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine started on 30 November 1947, one day after the UN General Assembly vote on the UN Partition Plan.[31] It finished on 14 May 1948 when the Jewish People's Council approved a proclamation which declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.[32]

During this period, the Arab and Jewish communities of Palestine clashed, while the British, who had the obligation to maintain order,[33][34] organised their own withdrawal and intervened only on an occasional basis.

From January onwards, operations became increasingly militarized. A number of Arab Liberation Army regiments intervened inside Palestine, each active in a variety of distinct sectors around the different coastal towns. They consolidated their presence in Galilee and Samaria.[35] On 16 February 1948, UN Palestine Commission to the security council reported that: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."[36]

Arab Palestinians left, fled or were expelled in large numbers, especially after Jewish forces took the major seaport of Haifa in April 1948.
--- End quote ---
I think we could agree that mistakes were made by both sides and should talk about what is going on right now instead of what already happened.

·UηİŦ··:
I think...

No one should even need to ship weapons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)Anything here can be given many kinds of context. I don't know the true story, I don't know why or what exactly. I don't know if Syria will instantly oppress Israel the moment they have leverage over the airways or simply lay idle with their new playthings, and I'm not here to take apart opinions and beliefs. Putting aside bias, trying to imagine that someone wanted to roll a rather large train carrying large missiles through, or in proxy of your major cities/states/country/whateverthecase would bother me.

Even more so if you're worried about a terrorist just waltzing in and blowing the asdf out of the train-rocket in the middle of a station. Or, using them against you once the train has been successfully hijacked.

It would also bother me if I watched someone attempt to climb a cliff face with a mop vs someone with an ice-pick and proper gear. But the weapons... I don't think anyone even needs a giant assortment of heat-seeking explosive ballistics let alone a nuke... besides combating irrationalities with a much larger, mundane and mutually-self destructive irrationality that outweighs a simple Blue vs Red argument.

Trying to be more objective than subjective here, I think Syria should be allowed to receive the shipment. If we're to have giant weapons just sitting on all of our front lawns, and these weapons are effective in terms of defense and a sense of security/strength, then by all means they should be allowed that same opportunity to develop as a country that can support itself- at the very least. At the same time, that train-rocket scenario comes to mind. But, since anything goes and I'm not an expert on what happens outside my country, Syria could very well start a war. I don't know that, I doubt it, but I don't know.

And I realize the whole exploding train isn't what Israel is worried about.

Russia could have a say as they are a pretty big nation and are shipping said weapons, but I think it could very well be up to Israel. I'm not too thrilled by the thought of a country lording over another with jets and missiles and other wonderful things, but at the same time I do see the blatant "I hate Israel!" being tossed around. Like Code said, if you're surrounded by people who, given even a split second would love to do nothing more than slit your throat, then I think it'd be a rather good idea to not let them have that moment.

But from my P.O.V. I just think things should be watched carefully, and if things don't seem right, then Russia shouldn't be giving them giant guns that are able to take out Spaceships. If they start taking things out when they receive said weapons, well, now you have a reason to point fingers before you distribute more giant missiles and start more fires.

tl;dr I would want to see some sort of diplomacy sans uproar, but I'm not sure that will happen. Either way, I'm hoping that said weapons can be shipped, and nothing else comes from it besides Syria having a couple AA pew-pews collecting dust.

... I know the world doesn't always work that way, but we didn't blow up in 1991, and we didn't blow up just now.

Tiger Guy:

--- Quote from: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 09:51:54 AM ---The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.

--- End quote ---
Does that really give Israel the right to occupy current Palestinian land though? Since the UN divided the land in 1947, Israel has occupied most of the Palestinian area the UN promised Palestine, and the Golan Heights.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not to mention that the Israeli government treats Palestinians like blacks were treated in South African apartheid.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Uneasy Rider: Israeli restrictions force Palestinian kids to use donkeys as school bus
West Bank miners carry heavy burden of occupation
Crap Cannon: Israel sprays putrid liquid to control West Bank crowd
Israel forces Palestinians from 'tent city'
Israel plan to wall off West Bank land defied

CodeKyuubi:
Well, Israel believes they have the right to occupy the land because they were the victims, they were attacked, and they won. The Arab nations lost, and they had to cede land as part of the various peace treaties. It's kind of like when various Axis nations in World War I were separated into different nations after they lost.

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