.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers

Support (Read Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Seb on April 05, 2012, 04:25:56 PM

Title: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 05, 2012, 04:25:56 PM
Our TTT is fucking horrific.

First things first, the karma system.
I was just playing a game right now, when a Detective gets sniped. There's an ensuing gunfight that leaves one dead. I DNA the body and it leads to Snivy, so I pump a magazine into him (I have 500 karma) and he tells me, "Lose karma. Do it." Just then, there was another gunfight and he helps shoot down two Ts. Two knives are picked up, and people are running around with them. Shit happens and they both end up stabbing somebody they though were Ts, and were wrong both times and now had less health because I shot them. After this happens, I kill a traitor. I lost two hundred karma, from 524 to 324. This is horsedick and shouldn't happen, as it is totally unfair. It needs a fix, and bad.

There are plenty of shooty guns, but not anything creative for Detectives or Traitors to use. I don't know, give traitors something fun. A low-power RPG that only does 75 damage max. A headcrab launcher. A suicide bomb that needs to charge for ten seconds. Those are great ideas.

TTT needs a fix.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 05, 2012, 04:31:36 PM
This is probably the twelve TTT karma thread.

And just like all the others, nothings going to happen. AT ALL.

;_;
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 05, 2012, 04:33:36 PM
I really think it's time we give temp karma a test simply a trial period before the perm servers go back up. I personally am in favor of perm karma but I would like the issue to be resolved once and for all and it seems the only way to do that is to try it. As for adding wacky weapons I'm simply against it I go in TTT with the intention of having fun simply by playing it generates enough fun moments as is without the need for random wacky crap. I don't like the thought of my T buddies wasting their T rounds shooting a headcrab launcher and doing all of 25 damage to 3 different innos. I guess what I'm saying is as of now people tend to play to win the general process of killing innos stealthily ALREADY IS FUN, if weapons like this are added you'll see more people using them then actually playing the game properly. It won't be Ts win and lose some it will be how badly did the T's lose this time. Regardless nothing is probably going to happen for whatever reason temp karma has been suggested time and time again and nothing is done more then likely because its opposers. Even though I'm completely and utterly in favor of perm karma I really want to get the discussion done with which as stated requires a trial period.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on April 05, 2012, 04:40:51 PM
Guys, its not changing.
If you don't enjoy it, don't play.


Wait until the servers come back, and play green shift with me instead.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Juan_Ambriz on April 05, 2012, 08:29:47 PM
Guys, its not changing.
If you don't enjoy it, don't play.


Wait until the servers come back, and play green shift with me instead.
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHH
Or stronghold, i liek Stronghold
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: [TTPN] ShadowMoon on April 06, 2012, 10:37:11 PM
Da Tator knife is glitchy.
Sometimes, when you are unlucky enough, you get the somehow glitch thingy when you trying to knife someone.
Blood can be seen splurting out, but still alive... :|
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 06, 2012, 10:38:08 PM
Our TTT is fucking horrific.

First things first, the karma system.
I was just playing a game right now, when a Detective gets sniped. There's an ensuing gunfight that leaves one dead. I DNA the body and it leads to Snivy, so I pump a magazine into him (I have 500 karma) and he tells me, "Lose karma. Do it." Just then, there was another gunfight and he helps shoot down two Ts. Two knives are picked up, and people are running around with them. Shit happens and they both end up stabbing somebody they though were Ts, and were wrong both times and now had less health because I shot them. After this happens, I kill a traitor. I lost two hundred karma, from 524 to 324. This is horsedick and shouldn't happen, as it is totally unfair. It needs a fix, and bad.

There are plenty of shooty guns, but not anything creative for Detectives or Traitors to use. I don't know, give traitors something fun. A low-power RPG that only does 75 damage max. A headcrab launcher. A suicide bomb that needs to charge for ten seconds. Those are great ideas.

TTT needs a fix.
How about go play another TTT server until the original servers are back like conjointTTT or Holy Shit its a TTT server or whether server you prefer yourself.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2012, 10:41:54 PM
How about go play another TTT server until the original servers are back like conjointTTT or Holy Shit its a TTT server or whether server you prefer yourself.
Why fix something when you can get a shitty version of it?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Juan_Ambriz on April 06, 2012, 10:44:46 PM
Fuck
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Frank on April 06, 2012, 10:57:44 PM
uuuuuh, I think Snivy's hosting the ZS server, not the TTT. Xrain is hosting TTT and Wire.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: [Valor]iPounce on April 06, 2012, 11:07:32 PM
I dont really know guys but why are you guys complaining about Perma Karma, It's so great.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 06, 2012, 11:14:08 PM
I dont really know guys but why are you guys complaining about Perma Karma, It's so great.

It's pretty good, it just doesn't need the overly strict karma loss.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Juan_Ambriz on April 06, 2012, 11:22:42 PM
uuuuuh, I think Snivy's hosting the ZS server, not the TTT. Xrain is hosting TTT and Wire.

Im a dumbass forget I ever said anything.
Lol
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Prox on April 07, 2012, 08:11:24 AM
Karma system is really too strict.
Kill 2 traitors and 1 innocent - lose 200+ karma.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 07, 2012, 09:50:48 AM
I dont really know guys but why are you guys complaining about Perma Karma, It's so great.
perma karma is good but the karma system is too sensitive whenever you mistakenly hurt an innocent once and lose 100-200 karma
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 07, 2012, 10:33:24 AM
Guys, its not changing.
If you don't enjoy it, don't play.


Wait until the servers come back, and play green shift with me instead.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaNi0UfOoI&t=1m20s#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaNi0UfOoI&t=1m20s#ws)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 07, 2012, 12:40:30 PM
How about avoid shooting the person and wait until they're identified.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 07, 2012, 07:37:33 PM
Too many people here MISSING the fucking point.

The problem is NOT with PERMA karma but with the penalties incurred, they ARE inconsistent, and frankly, in need of tweaking - in some cases maybe increased, a lot of cases, reduced considerably. 

For example, somebody accidentally shooting a barrel - that blows up a barrel, and THAT second barrel killing ONE person could incur a 630 point loss - excessive much?

We don't go to other TTT servers perma/abandon this one because, *duh*, WE LIKE this server - thinking changes are needed / demonstrating a necessity IMO does not negate one's devotion to the server, or liking the game mode / server, it just means that said person is one of MANY to say, "wow, we got a serious fucking problem here" - and as frequent players, yeah, they have that right IMO.

And Deacon, please gimmie a break, YOU think nothing will change, YOU think nothing SHOULD change, but that doesn't mean we should not have an opinion on the matter, nor should it mean that we should just shut up or not play when it comes to a very fixable problem that is obviously enough of a problem to be brought up by many people OVER and OVER.  Sweeping it under the rug hurts a lot more than, I dunno, letting people talk about it / suggest changes?  If it bugs you so much, don't pay attention to it, sure will be more effective than pissing off people by telling them that if they don't like X problem to go to another server instead of pushing to resolve it / make the server they LIKE [and thus are STAYING ON] BETTER.


My suggestions:

- Fix some noticeable bugs when possible, including the ability to buy nothing in the detective or Traitor's context menu, thus wasting a credit, and a player's mic button getting stuck when the player dies, if he/she is talking... and please, Xrain, PLEASE FIX the bug that was fixed on the real server before it went down where somebody can txtchat and get a comment out after they've already died [NOT as last word either] - it has emerged here, and can be a real pisser.  I mean, somebody dies, and - not as last words [as evident by the lack of "LAST WORDS:" and "--*SPLUT*"]- "[so-and-so] is a Traitor!" appears on the screen - T dies, but from information made available because of a system bug that shouldn't.

- Modify the karma system reductions [T killing T, D killing I or D, I killing I or D, etc]/ gains [between round, for each Tater killed/shot at, or surviving the round, etc].

- EDIT: TWO MORE SUGGESTIONS:
- There is a BUILT IN cheat to force the player who entered it to be forced inno, forced detective, or forced traitor.  Find a way to make it so an admin can do that for a target player, if one doesn't already exists - it would be cool if somebody properly screwed out of a T round, who politely makes his/her case, could be given a new T round [same for inno, det, etc]
- Make it so admins can dynamically modify karma to fix karma from dealing with RDMers, etc.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: [Valor]iPounce on April 07, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
Ughh, So you guys are complaining about the penalties of the karma.

Lol, You must be playing TTT wrong. Losing karma is part of the game.

I, myself lost many karma up to 10. Never complained
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 07, 2012, 08:47:33 PM
- There is a BUILT IN cheat to force the player who entered it to be forced inno, forced detective, or forced traitor.  Find a way to make it so an admin can do that for a target player, if one doesn't already exists - it would be cool if somebody properly screwed out of a T round, who politely makes his/her case, could be given a new T round [same for inno, det, etc]
- Make it so admins can dynamically modify karma to fix karma from dealing with RDMers, etc.

To both the suggestions,

I think it'd cause too many problems. Not necessarily a thing of "hurdur admin aboose" but it really does get annoying having people ask you to reset your karma constantly, and on top of that, have people complaining that you did something for someone else and not them or some shit.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 07, 2012, 08:49:56 PM
Ughh, So you guys are complaining about the penalties of the karma.

Lol, You must be playing TTT wrong. Losing karma is part of the game.

I, myself lost many karma up to 10. Never complained

I never complain when I lose 500 karma for no good reason, but that doesn't mean it's not fucking retarded.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 07, 2012, 08:54:24 PM
How about

we just bring back temp karma

and ban all the RDMers.

Because baiting is the stupidest shit I've ever seen.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 07, 2012, 08:56:30 PM
How about

we just bring back temp karma

and ban all the RDMers.

Because baiting is the stupidest shit I've ever seen.

That is the smartest fucking thing I have read online in a looooong time.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 07, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
How about

we just bring back temp karma

and ban all the RDMers.

Because baiting is the stupidest shit I've ever seen.

hahahahaha

oh I get it

this guy

He thinks that admins will actually play garry's mod and ban RDMers.

you're funny

I say we just team up and bait anyone who wants to keep perma karma until their karma is at 10 forever. Agreed?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 07, 2012, 08:59:40 PM
hahahahaha

oh I get it

this guy

He thinks that admins will actually play garry's mod and ban RDMers.

you're funny

I say we just team up and bait anyone who wants to keep perma karma until their karma is at 10 forever. Agreed?

Okay, so minus the Assholese, you're agreeing with him on bringing back temp karma?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 07, 2012, 09:03:41 PM
Okay, so minus the Assholese, you're agreeing with him on bringing back temp karma?

Yeah, of course. I've been in agreement with it since we had permanent karma in the first place. My jimmies are just rustled enough for me to be a dick about it by this point.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 07, 2012, 09:04:57 PM
He thinks that admins will actually play garry's mod and ban RDMers.

you're funny
Even then, it's easier to make a report on some faggot RDMing than it is on some faggot baiting.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 07, 2012, 09:10:29 PM
I say we just team up and bait anyone who wants to keep perma karma until their karma is at 10 forever. Agreed?
Hahahahahaha, Jokes on you. There are actually certain people on the TTT server that is cautious with their karma and traitor baiting isn't going to solve anything.

How about we do the old fashion way just like we used to do like VIPs disguise themselves with a new name and a different avatar so we can monitor throughout the server..
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 07, 2012, 09:48:54 PM
Hahahahahaha, Jokes on you. There are actually certain people on the TTT server that is cautious with their karma and traitor baiting isn't going to solve anything.

How about we do the old fashion way just like we used to do like VIPs disguise themselves with a new name and a different avatar so we can monitor throughout the server..

Anything that doesn't change the karma system is immediately a stupid idea.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Frank on April 07, 2012, 09:50:21 PM
(http://uboachan.net/mado/src/1318513817549.jpg)

(http://i55.tinypic.com/25fiopk.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/draconicmage/champ.png)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Foofoojack on April 08, 2012, 12:05:47 AM
Hahahahahaha, Jokes on you. There are actually certain people on the TTT server that is cautious with their karma and traitor baiting isn't going to solve anything.

How about we do the old fashion way just like we used to do like VIPs disguise themselves with a new name and a different avatar so we can monitor throughout the server..

hahahahah that's a good joke!


that did not do SHIT
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Don on April 08, 2012, 12:07:25 AM
How about we do the old fashion way just like we used to do like VIPs disguise themselves with a new name and a different avatar so we can monitor throughout the server..
When was the last time you saw Snivy M.D., gamefreak and DoeniDon on the servers?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 08, 2012, 12:14:32 AM
When was the last time you saw Snivy M.D., gamefreak and DoeniDon on the servers?


Oh god my sides.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 08, 2012, 12:22:35 AM
When was the last time you saw Snivy M.D., gamefreak and DoeniDon on the servers?


the opposite goes for tiger guy
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 08, 2012, 06:59:14 AM
Ughh, So you guys are complaining about the penalties of the karma.

Lol, You must be playing TTT wrong. Losing karma is part of the game.

*facepalm*

If you are serious, this is a case of "can you read?" - the problem is not with loss, but HOW MUCH - as there are many cases of being disproportionately high.  That is what the chief problem is, always has been to my knowledge, and it always has been stated clearly.  For you to blatantly miss that makes me question your reading comprehension.


Snivy:  I do understand your concern, though I think that could be partially remedied by a VERY stern/firm hand so far as not begging, making sure players only ask when they really have reason.  IF karma system, tweaks don't come to be, at least something like this could POTENTIALLY be done, IF NOT programming a system to automate the concepts of fixing karma from dealing with RDMers / giving T rounds to those who were screwed out of it [which would be harder, but is doable from a programming standpoint]
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 08, 2012, 10:04:22 AM
When was the last time you saw Snivy M.D., gamefreak and DoeniDon on the servers?
I have bad memories so I'm guessing it was last week..
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 08, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
I have bad memories so I'm guessing it was last week..

the  correct answer was "never"
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 08, 2012, 11:48:20 AM
How about we have 2 TTT servers. 1 permakarma and one temp karma. Whoever wants permanent karma can stay on permanent karma and whoever wants temp karma can have temp karma. And if by the end, one of the servers go dead, we remove it.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: yoshi on April 08, 2012, 06:11:49 PM
How about we have 2 TTT servers. 1 permakarma and one temp karma. Whoever wants permanent karma can stay on permanent karma and whoever wants temp karma can have temp karma. And if by the end, one of the servers go dead, we remove it.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

Very great but they'll probably find a reason to it being a bad idea.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Cake Faice on April 08, 2012, 06:45:46 PM
How about we have 2 TTT servers. 1 permakarma and one temp karma. Whoever wants permanent karma can stay on permanent karma and whoever wants temp karma can have temp karma. And if by the end, one of the servers go dead, we remove it.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
That's actually a pretty good idea. I might get back in TTT if this is implemented.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 08, 2012, 06:47:07 PM
How about we have 2 TTT servers. 1 permakarma and one temp karma. Whoever wants permanent karma can stay on permanent karma and whoever wants temp karma can have temp karma. And if by the end, one of the servers go dead, we remove it.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

I said that

about three times now in other "change the karma system" threads.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 10, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
I said that

about three times now in other "change the karma system" threads.

You're correct you have and it's a good idea however, as it is few admins/vips are on ttt at any given time. It appears a good portion of those who do come by from time to time prefer temp karma. My point being this will lead to even fewer authoritative figures on Perm karma ttt then there already is. Yes I realize if you call a vip/admin 9/10 times they'll come but they can only do so much after the crimes been committed especially if the said abuser doesn't do it again.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Samo on April 10, 2012, 06:31:56 PM
The servers have come to the point where low karma's rdm all the time, they get killed by people who think that they are the T. It pisses me off so much seeing people complain about it every game. If the karma loss values could be modified in some way to ease the loss for killing RDM'ers and baiters. That is the closest to a solution, we all know it is unlikely that it won't get changed and quite frankly, I don't want it too. We will have even more RDMing noobs if it was changed heavily. And nobody wants that. It will bring in more immature players than myself.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 10, 2012, 07:14:42 PM
The servers have come to the point where low karma's rdm all the time, they get killed by people who think that they are the T. It pisses me off so much seeing people complain about it every game. If the karma loss values could be modified in some way to ease the loss for killing RDM'ers and baiters. That is the closest to a solution, we all know it is unlikely that it won't get changed and quite frankly, I don't want it too. We will have even more RDMing noobs if it was changed heavily. And nobody wants that. It will bring in more immature players than myself.

The whole point of the karma system was to forcefully stop people with low karma from rdming. And it works because no one actually dies from getting shot with a player with 90 percent damage reduction. The actual problem boils down to the one-visit rdmers and baiters. That said, one-visit rdmers wont have the patience to regain their karma so the whole assumption that reducing karma penalties bringing in more rdmers is wrong.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Osme on April 11, 2012, 10:19:09 AM
The whole point of the karma system was to forcefully stop people with low karma from rdming. And it works because no one actually dies from getting shot with a player with 90 percent damage reduction. The actual problem boils down to the one-visit rdmers and baiters. That said, one-visit rdmers wont have the patience to regain their karma so the whole assumption that reducing karma penalties bringing in more rdmers is wrong.
Pretty much this... Not much fun when there is more accusing than shooting. When I shoot a guy in the middle of a crowd while Im T, I shouldnt be able to calmly walk away hearing people complain that I am rdming.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Mehis on April 11, 2012, 10:35:15 AM
Having two servers is only going to divide the player base, IMO.

I cannot understand this situation fully, even though I have been playing some TTT around this week. If I get RMD'd I never want to know about it, it doesn't matter. Only if it's M RDM, then it's serious business. And to fix these Mass RDMs, you need more active admins and VIPs.

And for loosing too much karma... I don't get it. That's like saying, "I don't want to play this gamemode anymore because of this one little reason, which makes it all fair". Low karma? Gain it back up. People RDMing? Baiting? Report, kick and ban.

I cannot see the problem.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Osme on April 11, 2012, 10:41:03 AM
And for loosing too much karma... I don't get it. That's like saying, "I don't want to play this gamemode anymore because of this one little reason, which makes it all fair". Low karma? Gain it back up. People RDMing? Baiting? Report, kick and ban.

I cannot see the problem.
Report it, great, cool, banned for a short while. All for that. But the problem is, they dont often come back, and youre left with <600 karma which will take several games to fix. And thats assuming nobody else baits or you dont made a mistake. Perma karma as a fix to RDM simply doesnt make sense, as it punishes regular players, not the join and leave RDMing player.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 11, 2012, 04:29:35 PM
That's like saying, "I don't want to play this gamemode anymore because of this one little reason, which makes it all fair".


Exploding a barrel, which explodes a barrel, then kills ONE - then having your karma go from 960 to 330 is NOT fair.

Losing a lot of karma like that due to baiting is not fair.

Losing a lot of karma like that due to an RDMer is not fair.

Situations **like** that are NOT fair.  Situations **like** that are COMMON.


Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 11, 2012, 04:39:26 PM
Having two servers is only going to divide the player base, IMO.

>Implying playerbase isnt already divided

"I don't want to play this gamemode anymore because of this one little reason, which makes it all fair".

That's like saying all complaints against an FPS for its shooting mechanics is irrelevant because it's 'one little' reason when compared to the game as a whole

I still stand with my idea to put up 2 TTT servers
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 05:01:19 PM
Exploding a barrel, which explodes a barrel, then kills ONE - then having your karma go from 960 to 330 is NOT fair.

Losing a lot of karma like that due to baiting is not fair.

Losing a lot of karma like that due to an RDMer is not fair.

Situations **like** that are NOT fair.  Situations **like** that are COMMON.

Even with 1k karma it wouldn't drop that low it would be more like 500 you have to remember as your karma gets lower it becomes harder to lose even more. It'd be more like 500. How do you not see someone near a barrel or a domino barrel which will become hit is my question? As far as examples go you should have just stuck with "Someone shoots me down to 60hp and I kill them losing 400 karma". As far as degs point the issue of the karma system not punishing the rdmer, what are you smoking?! It does its job perfectly you claim it doesn't punish them because they just leave well is that not the point to get the rdmers off the server I don't see how it's ineffective in that sense it renders the rdmer incapable of rdming and forces them to leave.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 11, 2012, 05:05:32 PM
you claim it doesn't punish them because they just leave well is that not the point to get the rdmers off the server I don't see how it's ineffective in that sense it renders the rdmer incapable of rdming and forces them to leave.

RDMER kills a bunch of innocents. An innocent sees this and kills the rdmer, thinking he is a traitor.

The RDMER loses ALL his karma, and leaves, never to return. The innocent loses 400 karma, but returns the next day, spending hours to regain his karma.

In short, the RDMER losing karma doesnt affect him since he just leaves. The innocent however, gets the short end as he has to recover his karma when the rdmer does not.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 05:10:13 PM
RDMER kills a bunch of innocents. An innocent sees this and kills the rdmer, thinking he is a traitor.

The RDMER loses ALL his karma, and leaves, never to return. The innocent loses 400 karma, but returns the next day, spending hours to regain his karma.

In short, the RDMER losing karma doesnt affect him since he just leaves. The innocent however, gets the short end as he has to recover his karma when the rdmer does not.

If a 880/860 new player here for the purpose of rdming kills even one 1k their karma is now 450-500 meaning anyone who kills them will lose 225-250 karma now 400. If the person mass rdms the person who kills them will lose close to nothing. It doesn't punish those who kill rdmers, karma baiters however is a different matter.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 11, 2012, 05:11:56 PM
If a 880/860 new player here for the purpose of rdming kills even one 1k their karma is now 450-500 meaning anyone who kills them will lose 225-250 karma now 400. If the person mass rdms the person who kills them will lose close to nothing.

That still affects the player more than the rdmer
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 05:18:15 PM
That still affects the player more than the rdmer

THE KARMA SYSTEM IS RDM PROTECTION IN ITSELF. How do you not understand that? That rdmer is INCAPABLE of doing so after even one rdm. 225 karma doesn't affect anything unless you're below 700 which would drop you down to 525 ish based on my the whole "less karma you have less you lose" thing.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 11, 2012, 05:21:06 PM
THE KARMA SYSTEM IS RDM PROTECTION IN ITSELF. How do you not understand that? That rdmer is INCAPABLE of doing so after even one rdm.

Thats the ENTIRE POINT. One mistaken kill on the innocent's part renders him nearly useless. The karma system shuts down Rdmer's sure, but also normal players in the progress.

-You still havent given me a valid point as to why we cant have 2 servers since you can still play on your own perma karma server
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 05:26:23 PM
Thats the ENTIRE POINT. One mistaken kill on the innocent's part renders him nearly useless. The karma system shuts down Rdmer's sure, but also normal players in the progress.

That's a good point but it's the price you pay for having perm karma, it's simply the lesser of two evils everyone seems to think one system is perfect or the other is perfect or their idea is perfect, spoiler alert in this instance there is no right idea there is no perfect solution no one form of server fixes all the necessary problems while keeping regular players happy. It's purely opinion based as to which idea you're more for or against.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Osme on April 11, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
That's a good point but it's the price you pay for having perm karma, it's simply the lesser of two evils everyone seems to think one system is perfect or the other is perfect or their idea is perfect, spoiler alert in this instance there is no right idea there is no perfect solution no one form of server fixes all the necessary problems while keeping regular players happy. It's purely opinion based as to which idea you're more for or against.

The price paid is the RDMer getting off without punishment while the actually players are punished, forced to play for up to a few hours (multiple map changes) simply to get back to having enough karma to be effective

The, as you say, lesser of the 2 evils is the RDMer getting banned quickly (1-3 rounds, one would expect), and actual player getting a karma penalty until the end of the map change. And during those 1-3 rounds, the person who rdms has the exact same karma he would have under the perm karma system. Meaning temp and perm karma punished minges equally, while perm karma severely punishes legitimate players who react the the guy mowing down other innos, leaving the temp karma system to temporarily nerf the legitimate players damage

As I see it, perm karma severely punishes player for shooting the guy that killed 3 people right in front of him, and not at all (Going from RDMing to a baiting is not a punishment. They can still do a good hit to karma, as is the intent.) the inno that killed the 3 randomly.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 07:13:49 PM
The price paid is the RDMer getting off without punishment while the actually players are punished, forced to play for up to a few hours (multiple map changes) simply to get back to having enough karma to be effective

The, as you say, lesser of the 2 evils is the RDMer getting banned quickly (1-3 rounds, one would expect), and actual player getting a karma penalty until the end of the map change. And during those 1-3 rounds, the person who rdms has the exact same karma he would have under the perm karma system. Meaning temp and perm karma punished minges equally, while perm karma severely punishes legitimate players who react the the guy mowing down other innos, leaving the temp karma system to temporarily nerf the legitimate players damage

As I see it, perm karma severely punishes player for shooting the guy that killed 3 people right in front of him, and not at all (Going from RDMing to a baiting is not a punishment. They can still do a good hit to karma, as is the intent.) the inno that killed the 3 randomly.

They don't punish equally in one instance an admin is needed to come ban/kick the rdmer because guess what his karma resets every so often so he can do it again. People who realize the server is temp karma will also realize they can just mass rdm once every 6 rounds.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Osme on April 11, 2012, 07:19:10 PM
They don't punish equally in one instance an admin is needed to come ban/kick the rdmer because guess what his karma resets every so often so he can do it again. People who realize the server is temp karma will also realize they can just mass rdm once every 6 rounds.
I was going to say 1-2 rounds, changed to 3 considering that an admin/vip may not be on. It doesnt exactly take half an hour to get a VIP/admin onto a server, if there isnt already (As I remember, VIP is common on TTT)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 11, 2012, 10:05:49 PM
I STILL havent seen a legitimate reason as to why we cannot have both a tempkarma and permakarma server. 
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 11, 2012, 11:06:30 PM
I STILL havent seen a legitimate reason as to why we cannot have both a tempkarma and permakarma server. 

You're correct you have and it's a good idea however, as it is few admins/vips are on ttt at any given time. It appears a good portion of those who do come by from time to time prefer temp karma. My point being this will lead to even fewer authoritative figures on Perm karma ttt then there already is. Yes I realize if you call a vip/admin 9/10 times they'll come but they can only do so much after the crimes been committed especially if the said abuser doesn't do it again.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Mehis on April 12, 2012, 03:25:40 AM
Well it's all up to the owner. I would still enjoy playing with permakarma more than temp. But in the end, it doesn't make much of a difference. Just do it.
I will still play TTT.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 12, 2012, 04:15:25 AM
Endround DM barely ever even happens unless everybody agrees to it.

People who RDM at the last round can just get kicked or banned.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 12, 2012, 07:42:58 AM


Okay, in perma karma, the victim has to suffer for many rounds after to fix their karma, regardless whether the rdmer gets banned or not. While in temp karma they just have to wait out until the map changes and they can go back to whatever. And if the problem persists, report.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on April 12, 2012, 09:03:43 AM
The main issue with permanent karma is that it's very possible to grief others by baiting them into losing karma.

The worse issue is that unless you actually deal damage to someone, it's impossible to prove without a demo. Even if a damagelog shows someone shooting you once, it could easily be argued that it was an accident and you overreacted. The reverse is also true. If you accidentally shoot someone and they kill you, they could compile instances of this and claim that you baited them, in which case you're royally fucked. The two events are nearly indistinguishable and unpunishable unless:


In situations where it's very, very plausible that someone would miss repeatedly before killing someone (for example, sniping from the bottom house on crummycradle, or any far distance for that matter) it's incredibly easy to bait someone into losing 400+ karma, and even easier to get away with.


My point is that if you're choosing to ignore this problem after an entire thread, you're kind of an asshole and I have nothing more to say here.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Frank on April 12, 2012, 02:34:05 PM
Because we ain't got teh motherloadz of ze hosting.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 12, 2012, 02:42:43 PM

On top of what has been said, if it isn't changed to temp karma, I have ideas that I'd like to suggest to not only help with the karma penalties, but a system that helps deal with RDMers, etc, without completely imploding the system or removing permakarma.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 12, 2012, 03:10:58 PM
without completely imploding the system or removing permakarma.

Or you know, have two servers so none of those problems happen ._.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 12, 2012, 04:39:25 PM
Even with permakarma, the ideas I have can help, STRICTLY IMO of course.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Pilgrim on April 13, 2012, 03:36:21 PM
IF we had a temp karma server, I wouldn't want karma reset every match personally. I think it should be Reset every day. Most Rdm'ers would think it to be perma karma unless they come on the server regularly to RDM, in which case get an admin/file a report.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 21, 2012, 08:42:18 AM
This.


Why do people think that temporary karma HAS to mean every map change?  It can be set to different intervals, like every day or so - and frankly, having it reset every DAY would be cool - it as already said would give the appearance of permakarma, and actually not be - allowing people whose karma to reset, preventing them from being forced to work absurdly long to recover from an RDMer, etc.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Fenix on April 23, 2012, 06:02:51 PM
Administration. Every map i've played today has had a mass rdm or 2, and theres nothing to stop it. Yes, they lose their karma, but with that, I lose mine too. I've been stuck with 400 karma for 3 hours because of it. Please. Get us more administration.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 23, 2012, 06:09:10 PM
Administration. Every map i've played today has had a mass rdm or 2, and theres nothing to stop it. Yes, they lose their karma, but with that, I lose mine too. I've been stuck with 400 karma for 3 hours because of it. Please. Get us more administration.

We'd get more respectable people on if they'd just do something about this fucking karma system.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 23, 2012, 08:10:42 PM
Administration. Every map i've played today has had a mass rdm or 2, and theres nothing to stop it. Yes, they lose their karma, but with that, I lose mine too. I've been stuck with 400 karma for 3 hours because of it. Please. Get us more administration.

So who said permakarma is the solution to rdm?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: yoshi on April 24, 2012, 08:45:42 AM
So who said permakarma is the solution to rdm?
Alot of people.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Sabb on April 24, 2012, 12:14:23 PM
So who said permakarma is the solution to rdm?
The RDM is a LOT lower now than it was... do you not remember how TTT was lol?
Without permakarma people would openly break rules whenever they could and there's simply no fucking way to manage the server as it was.

Administration. Every map i've played today has had a mass rdm or 2, and theres nothing to stop it. Yes, they lose their karma, but with that, I lose mine too. I've been stuck with 400 karma for 3 hours because of it. Please. Get us more administration.
You don't drop to 400 karma after RDMing one person who has massed RDM'd several people. If you lose karma, in 90% of the situations it's your fault.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 24, 2012, 03:10:53 PM
So who said permakarma is the solution to rdm?

Never mind that this really doesn't prove or disprove anything - RDMers come and go even WITH permakarma.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Samo on April 24, 2012, 05:29:09 PM
Permakarma is fine. It's values for RDMing/Killing RDMers needs a slight change.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 24, 2012, 05:36:19 PM
Questions to discuss.

How many awesome and legit people left after perma karma came around?

Now how many shit players and assholes joined since perma karma?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Sabb on April 24, 2012, 05:38:32 PM
Only way I'll ever enjoy TTT without permakarma is if RDM of all sorts is allowed.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 24, 2012, 05:45:42 PM
Only way I'll ever enjoy TTT without permakarma is if RDM of all sorts is allowed.

Then don't complain when it happens.

Notice you're the only person defending it, Sabb.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: aerobro on April 24, 2012, 06:06:54 PM
I agree with Phoenix. There are rarely any admins on and if there is they are afk....
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on April 24, 2012, 07:09:27 PM
Then don't complain when it happens.

Notice you're the only person defending it, Sabb.


He's not.

He's just the only one still bothering to try.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on April 24, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Would people be totally against me hosting a temp karma TTT to try out?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 25, 2012, 01:04:48 AM
Would people be totally against me hosting a temp karma TTT to try out?

I'm for it so long as the one xrain is hosting now remains in place.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 25, 2012, 04:12:13 AM
Would people be totally against me hosting a temp karma TTT to try out?

If it keeps the current karma system, yes.
If not, no.

There's two ways we can go about this: permakarma with more lenient system, or temp with current system.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 25, 2012, 07:36:17 AM
Would people be totally against me hosting a temp karma TTT to try out?

I really dont see a reason not to, unless people are too scared that their perma karma server will die if temp karma was up.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 25, 2012, 11:57:11 AM
Why not examine the idea of temp karma being reset not being after every map change, but reset every one or two days, or every week?  That'd be interesting.  Give the impression of permakarma and every week reset it, making happy everyone whose karma was fucked at that point.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on April 25, 2012, 01:54:27 PM
Why not examine the idea of temp karma being reset not being after every map change, but reset every one or two days, or every week?  That'd be interesting.  Give the impression of permakarma and every week reset it, making happy everyone whose karma was fucked at that point.

Would this really make a difference?

If you think about that in relation to the regular players, in two days you could easily go from 0 karma to 1000 numerous times.

The only people I could imagine it benefiting would be extremely infrequent players, and rdmers.


Questions to discuss.

How many awesome and legit people left after perma karma came around?

Now how many shit players and assholes joined since perma karma?

This argument makes absolutely no sense.

Whats your definition of legit? People that have been playing on the servers for a while?

It's absurd to think that we have been accumulating poor players for the sole reason we have permakarma. There is a whole manner of things that can cause our player base to change, though generally the only thing that changes is the perception of the person complaining. (Eg: kids these days are terrible)

Even then the reason old players aren't playing so much are much more likely tied to changes in age/personality, and differing interest. Not rule changes in the servers.


So as far as Permakarma vs Tempkarma goes:

Permakarma:

+ Reduces overall damage rdmers can inflict (only 1 round of damaging rdm possible)
+ Provides reward for long term players ( Good players keep the benefit of high karma)
+ Encourages cautious players
+ Increases difficulty for innocent players

- Opens door for new forms of abuse (T-baiting, etc.)
- Also punishes innocent players when they kill rdming player
- Makes it more difficult for new players to get started ( They don't know the rules to start off with, and are punished harshly)

Tempkarma:

+ Increases pace of rounds
+ More friendly to new players
+ Less punishing to innocent players

o Makes games less demanding on the player (Good if you have limited time available)
o Increases difficulty for Traitors (Depends on balance of game)

- RDM punishment only lasts limited time
- RDMers have much higher chances
- Easily allows for lazy playing
- More likely to be killed as T (Players less careful when attacking)


There are plenty of other benefits and negatives of each option that I cant think of at the moment, but you get the idea.

To me personally, temp karma would be more beneficial, as I have a very limited amount of time available to me. But this is not the case for most of the community.

My feelings are that Permakarma is the most benificial to the community, I might be wrong of course, but I clearly remember playing with temp karma, It always ended up being much more similar to CS:S than clue.

To the people who say that permakarma prevents them from playing TTT, get out of here. If you were really serious about playing TTT and permakarma was that large of a game-breaker for you, good chance you would just play TTT in other servers; Rnd isn't that massively different from the other servers.



Just as an FYI, every idea in this thread, has been gone over, in some-cases many, many, times. The reason for this is the main problem we face. There is no perfect solution for this problem. It would require a change in humanity to not be a problem at all.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Seb on April 25, 2012, 02:42:05 PM
My problem isn't even with permakarma, it's how strict the current system is. Can't you make it more lenient?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 25, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
For some reason, in spite of not TRYING to, I find myself losing karma - going from 860 - 1k karma to 700 and lower [down to 76 in its lowest a couple of weeks ago] much more frequently than a year ago when I started playing, or even a couple of months ago.   ???

If it comes down to the RDM-and-run fucks, it wouldn't help them to have the idea, it may help the longer term fucks, but that IMO is where the VIPs, admins, and sourcebans - should it get fixed, or the real servers come back, do their share.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Rocket50 on April 25, 2012, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Xrain link=topic=12219.msg168340#msg168340

Instead of changing the servers entirely, why not have two TTT servers and let people decide what they want instead of assuming that one is 'best' for the community

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Doctor Who on April 25, 2012, 10:53:09 PM
Instead of changing the servers entirely, why not have two TTT servers :l

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just.. get the two TTT servers already and we'll see if it works out
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Osme on April 29, 2012, 07:30:03 AM
I still fail to see how permakarma helps. Making minges change from rdming the first 2 rounds to baiting the rest isnt really helpful. If anything, its worse than rdming, because it fucks over actual players for a good amount of time, versus a single round of being rdm'd. In many of the rounds I play, its simply unplayable because there is almost always someone with low karma spraying you, but then the "WHOA WHOA, DONT HURT HIM, YOULL LOSE KARMA AND BE PUNISHED BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE IS A MINGE!" idea causes you to sit there and take it. Even shooting the guy  chasing me with a knife was too much of a risk to take. So I simply quit. Its supposed to be fun, but permakarma makes it a chore and a task to not play, but simply grind karma up. Its more of a competition of patience in grinding karma as I see it.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: yoshi on April 29, 2012, 08:45:05 AM
I'll rather be RDMed every round than getting T bait'd everytime since it's so fucking tedious.
Incase you're not seeing the point, permakarma is worst
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 29, 2012, 10:58:35 AM
Nexus' TTT server has this thing that tells you who killed you, and what team they are on - which can help in dealing with RDMers, resolving conflicts or providing proof of RDMing or not RDMing.  We should have that on our server too, IMO.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Samo on April 29, 2012, 11:16:50 PM
Nexus' TTT server has this thing that tells you who killed you, and what team they are on - which can help in dealing with RDMers, resolving conflicts or providing proof of RDMing or not RDMing.  We should have that on our server too, IMO.
That would be great! I hate listening to people rage at others who didn't even RDM them. I've seen this in another server a long time ago. It worked quite well.
On the other hand, we may need more VIP/Admin activity. Having at least one in the servers will greatly lower the amount of bitching and baiting going on.   
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: semy32 on April 30, 2012, 04:24:31 AM
^
^


ttt_print_damagelog
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on April 30, 2012, 07:58:42 AM
^
^


ttt_print_damagelog

Yeah I was hoping someone would have said that, this command shows you every piece of damage that happened during the round I don't see why damagelogs aren't sufficient?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Sabb on April 30, 2012, 08:53:34 AM
Yeah I was hoping someone would have said that, this command shows you every piece of damage that happened during the round I don't see why damagelogs aren't sufficient?
Because the average player doesn't want to control himself until after the round to actually see who did what before complaining, insulting, etc etc.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on April 30, 2012, 09:35:43 AM
Nexus' TTT server has this thing that tells you who killed you, and what team they are on - which can help in dealing with RDMers, resolving conflicts or providing proof of RDMing or not RDMing.  We should have that on our server too, IMO.

If it shows who killed you before the round ends, than no. That increases the risk of ghosting significantly, there is a very good reason ttt_print_damagelog doesn't work until the end of round.

If it only works at the end of round, what's the point? There are already two systems in place (print_damagelog, ingame ttt menu) that serve the exact same functionality. I also dislike my screen getting bombarded by information at the end of a round.

So if you are too lazy, or impatient to hold off venting your spleen until the end of round, and using the damagelog command. That really doesn't sound like a game-breaking issue to me.


Instead of changing the servers entirely, why not have two TTT servers and let people decide what they want instead of assuming that one is 'best' for the community

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


*sigh*

Why not? Because I don't have any available resources to host a second ttt server. So if you wish to donate to me a couple hundred dollars so I can updgrade the VDS, then sure, good chance I'll host a second ttt server. Otherwise I feel that I have expended enough of my personal resources.

In addition, while that sounds like a good idea, I can see several cases where it would prove inconclusive. For example, what if both servers end up having equal population? Or more likely, what if people just get confused, and go to whatever server not really understanding the implications. That would be a false positive.


You know guys, I honestly think that our best option isn't a radical change to the ttt server. According to game tracker we are the #7 ttt server on the planet, and the #6 in the united states. We must be doing something right. Lets not be hasty and alienate all of our player base.


Now that my rl commitments have cleared up a bit, expect some improvements to be made to the servers in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 30, 2012, 10:26:53 AM
If it shows who killed you before the round ends, than no. That increases the risk of ghosting significantly...

I mean, sure, if you're friends with players that ghost/you ghost then yes, but that doesn't seem to be a problem there, and I play there very frequently.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on April 30, 2012, 10:52:04 AM
I mean, sure, if you're friends with players that ghost/you ghost then yes, but that doesn't seem to be a problem there, and I play there very frequently.

Alright, if that really is the case, now we hit issue #2.

It seems to me like it was custom made for their servers?

Which means it's something we will have to custom make. I for one, have neither the coding prowess, nor the desire to make such a thing.


So if you wish to make it, very well,  I look forward to it. Keep in mind, it will have to be double-checked to make sure it doesn't open any security holes.

Good luck!


Just to keep in mind, I have limited time available, I definitely have more now, however. The issues (ranked) I will focus on are as follows:

1. Security risks ( Things that endanger the server )
2. Gameplay issues ( Things that make the game unplayable )
3. Value-added services ( Things that would be nice to have ) ((Yes these are important but they aren't critical to the functioning of the server))
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on April 30, 2012, 06:15:00 PM
I've actually wanted to code some things for the server - though with the relaunch of rNd's official servers I wonder if that would go to waste... ah well, final exams are almost here, then I'll have all the time in the world.  :D
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Foofoojack on April 30, 2012, 06:29:22 PM
I think more admin and VIP activity could clear up a lot of the fog that makes the TTT server unhappy.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on May 07, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
I think more admin and VIP activity could clear up a lot of the fog that makes the TTT server unhappy.

I gave up on it when the regulars started voting no on every kick I started, no matter how many times I explained the reason.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on May 08, 2012, 04:17:46 PM
I gave up on it when the regulars started voting no on every kick I started, no matter how many times I explained the reason.

Have any other VIP's noted this kind of problem?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Foofoojack on May 08, 2012, 04:28:13 PM
Have any other VIP's noted this kind of problem?
I'm not a VIP, but I've never seen it happen.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on May 08, 2012, 04:33:53 PM
Well, I wouldn't know that it's still happening. I've been too preoccupied lately to get on the servers for more than a few minutes, and some of the regulars may have been demoted by now. I'm just saying that there's a lot of fixing to be done.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on May 08, 2012, 05:34:26 PM
Have any other VIP's noted this kind of problem?

I've only had one failed vote since I was promoted due to the fact that only one afk reg was present, it is however extremely difficult to get people to realize what the offense committed was. You can yell over everyone but there is still some who can't hear, listening to music, have voice muted whatever the case may be and if you text it often times voice players and text players alike miss it. I know it's been said for the duration of the temp servers it's not coming but this should easily be solved by solidvote when perm servers come back, for myself at least. As for all the recent reg demotions I think we're walking on thin ice. As of now I have no complaints but what's to come from this new spur of demotions for being being "generally obnoxious" I'm uncertain. I simply would like to address my own concerns as well as those of many members of the community as they have spoken to me, in that the probability and ease of abusing is much higher if we don't draw a line somewhere. We trust our admins to make the right decisions but as a fact of being human we all make mistakes, rage, confusion, and power can block out our senses at times and I feel if we don't set some sort of criteria for demotions it could end up poorly.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: toehawk on May 09, 2012, 10:58:57 PM
this is important. DO NOT OVERLOOK
today i talked with v0 | LeoMarr and he said our server had a  problem, he then showed me a screenshot of his view of the current round. all these players where present at the time(so no questioning legitimacy)
here it is

http://zhost.tk/u/zc/hl2_2012-05-09_22-14-44-94.jpg (http://zhost.tk/u/zc/hl2_2012-05-09_22-14-44-94.jpg)
 It's a command called "PP_Pixelrender"
 And then adding this script:

 http://pastebin.com/yVE7TMJ2 (http://pastebin.com/yVE7TMJ2)

he discovered the loophole from this website(it also tells how to safeguard your server)


http://www.zombiemaster.org/smf/index.php?topic=11304.0 (http://www.zombiemaster.org/smf/index.php?topic=11304.0)

bassically this is undetectable wallhacks,apparently the permanent servers where unprotected also. i hope this dosent get buried!

thanks. toehawk
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 10, 2012, 06:07:37 AM
I gave up on it when the regulars started voting no on every kick I started, no matter how many times I explained the reason.

On that subject:

One problem I've seen with others in some cases is when they start votes without making it clear why it was.  It doesn't happen VERY often AT all - in fact, it is rather rare, but I don't vote yes when a reason hasn't been clearly given / half the players are asking why a votekick/ban.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on May 10, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
this is important. DO NOT OVERLOOK
today i talked with v0 | LeoMarr and he said our server had a  problem, he then showed me a screenshot of his view of the current round. all these players where present at the time(so no questioning legitimacy)
here it is

http://zhost.tk/u/zc/hl2_2012-05-09_22-14-44-94.jpg (http://zhost.tk/u/zc/hl2_2012-05-09_22-14-44-94.jpg)
 It's a command called "PP_Pixelrender"
 And then adding this script:

 http://pastebin.com/yVE7TMJ2 (http://pastebin.com/yVE7TMJ2)

he discovered the loophole from this website(it also tells how to safeguard your server)


http://www.zombiemaster.org/smf/index.php?topic=11304.0 (http://www.zombiemaster.org/smf/index.php?topic=11304.0)

bassically this is undetectable wallhacks,apparently the permanent servers where unprotected also. i hope this dosent get buried!

thanks. toehawk


I kind of thought Leomarr was hacking, he seemed to get unusually lucky with killing traitors.

As in, killing two in one round after them not doing anything.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Pilgrim on May 10, 2012, 10:14:38 AM
On that subject:

One problem I've seen with others in some cases is when they start votes without making it clear why it was.  It doesn't happen VERY often AT all - in fact, it is rather rare, but I don't vote yes when a reason hasn't been clearly given / half the players are asking why a votekick/ban.

I'm the same. As regulars we are given a responsibility to vote properly on these things, what is the point if all we do is
vote yes when we have no idea what we are voting on.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: ursus on May 11, 2012, 04:45:24 PM
I'm the same. As regulars we are given a responsibility to vote properly on these things, what is the point if all we do is
vote yes when we have no idea what we are voting on.

I've never started a votekick without saying the reason in chat at least once, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I still haven't quite figured out why we can't just have a reason given along with the kick like we used to.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Pilgrim on May 11, 2012, 05:04:31 PM
I didn't specifically mean you, what I am saying is if we don't know what the reason was for whatever reason,
we should at least try to find out why before voting yes/no.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 12, 2012, 08:16:22 AM
Exactly, Pilgrim - and in the cases I've witnessed with others, whatever was being done was either subtle, or royally misconstrued, or in the scheme of things as minor as when < 5 people are on and we're dicking around with poltergeists.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: boogschuttertje on May 13, 2012, 08:16:33 PM
I think TTT is 100% ok, theres no giant problems... i dont se ewhy a thread like this is needed lol

*i dont see why*
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Tiger Guy on May 13, 2012, 08:19:48 PM
*i dont see why*

whoops, i mistapped
Word of advice, if you click 'Modify' in the top right corner, you can modify the message.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: boogschuttertje on May 13, 2012, 08:21:38 PM
Word of advice, if you click 'Modify' in the top right corner, you can modify the message.

oh, sorry... i didnt know, i dont go on forums

thanks though
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deathie on May 13, 2012, 08:37:24 PM
oh, sorry... i didnt know, i dont go on forums

thanks though

Merged your posts for ya'.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on May 14, 2012, 12:49:59 PM
I think TTT is 100% ok, theres no giant problems... i dont se ewhy a thread like this is needed lol

*i dont see why*

The problem is there are people who feel TTT with perm karma (since that's what this thread has become like EVERY OTHER TTT THREAD), is absolutely unplayable, that being said there are also those who feel the opposite being temp karma is absolutely unplayable. Lastly there are those who care but will play either way and just want the incessant bitching to stop. I will say this though if ever we try out temp karma it needs solid vote, there is no way in hell I'm going to keep kicking the same person for the same 10 minute period each time only to have them come back and continue to cause havoc when I could simply ban them for an hour after they come back the first time.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 14, 2012, 05:41:53 PM
I think TTT is 100% ok, theres no giant problems... i dont se ewhy a thread like this is needed lol


Maybe try reading more carefully?  There are some issues that need resolving - from tweaks that will make the game more enjoyable without breaking what already works, to very real security issues.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on May 15, 2012, 02:43:03 AM
Maybe try reading more carefully?  There are some issues that need resolving - from tweaks that will make the game more enjoyable without breaking what already works, to very real security issues.

The security issue was known, the regular servers were protected from it, however it had just gotten missed during the setup of the temp servers.

To be fair to boogschuttertje, the thread title is  "What needs to be done to fix TTT" He is correct the server is not currently broken.


There are however a few smaller things that can be done to improve the servers, but honestly, there is always things that can be done to improve the servers. ;)
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: toehawk on May 15, 2012, 07:09:39 AM
just another thing. i think the karma system is PERFECT. it makes just single rdm dangerouss, ttt is more fun when killing is a risk. i thik the only problem with our ttt is just a lack of traitor weapons.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Foofoojack on May 15, 2012, 07:31:50 AM
just another thing. i think the karma system is PERFECT. it makes just single rdm dangerouss, ttt is more fun when killing is a risk. i thik the only problem with our ttt is just a lack of traitor weapons.

if you've ever been a victim of attempted RDM or traitor baiting, this is not the case
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 15, 2012, 07:57:06 AM
 I think there are some big gameplay things that need tweaking - and one is the fucking hitboxes.

A number of players here have been having issues where they - with more than enough karma - headshot people with either a deagle, or a shotgun - and it doesn't register, either missing them, or just damaging them instead of one-shot-killing.

It... is... a... royal pain in the ass to lose your T round when somebody doesn't die because the hitboxes are messed up, and don't register a properly executed one shot kill.



Also, I do think we need to have VIPs on more often, lately it seems a number of idiot newcomers are coming in per week making it hard to enjoy TTT [and many more players who stay, and contribute to a good game ./ gaming atmosphere as well - don't want to leave them out :D]


Also, can we please stop all the randomly-calling-out-people things, the as-detective-destrying-another-detective's-health-station-while-he's-using-it, and all that migning bullshit?  It makes it very hard to actually enjoy the game.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on May 15, 2012, 08:20:53 AM
Terminal what you are asking is for players who do not even know we have a forum to stop being annoying.

Something tells me they're not going to stop just because you ask.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 15, 2012, 08:28:42 AM
Terminal what you are asking is for players who do not even know we have a forum to stop being annoying.

Something tells me they're not going to stop just because you ask.

Some of the people I'm indirectly looking at post here - very infrequently though.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on May 15, 2012, 12:25:40 PM
The only successful deterrant to this kind of behavior is  punishment.

Otherwise it will continue to run rampant and unchecked, as it does now.

 
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 15, 2012, 02:31:52 PM
The only successful deterrant to this kind of behavior is  punishment.

Otherwise it will continue to run rampant and unchecked, as it does now.

Unfortunately any hope of balance will, IT SEEMS anyways, have to look towards the return of the "real" rNd servers in the coming months.  Last thing I want in the interim though is for this server to become as bad as CoreStrike or Pub-Gaming, both of which are gone now, but were full of hackers, RDMers, cheaters, and not an admin in sight - nor any ranks that allowed some power to non-admins to deal with problem players.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on May 15, 2012, 03:05:37 PM
Unfortunately any hope of balance will, IT SEEMS anyways, have to look towards the return of the "real" rNd servers in the coming months.  Last thing I want in the interim though is for this server to become as bad as CoreStrike or Pub-Gaming, both of which are gone now, but were full of hackers, RDMers, cheaters, and not an admin in sight - nor any ranks that allowed some power to non-admins to deal with problem players.

If it makes any difference my router/computer should both be fixed by Friday so I'll be back, I like to think I'm strict but regardless pm a vip/admin I'm willing to bet a good 75% of them are willing to go to ttt for 5 minutes to deal with trouble makers that's what I used to do.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Foofoojack on May 15, 2012, 11:11:05 PM
Travelsonic's right, this stuff has a HUGE impact on how we play, and really deteriorates the games fun.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Pilgrim on May 15, 2012, 11:53:46 PM
I was on another TTT server the other day, and it had a 'VoteKarma' Feature.
Essentially if you killed an RDM'er or lost allot of karma wrongfully, you could give a vote which would reset your karma to 840
This would take a large majority of the server to approve it, and we could even make it so you cant do it unless a regular or VIP or whoever is on. Opinions?
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: toehawk on May 16, 2012, 12:50:56 AM
from my expierience it takes a pretty sierious rdm-streak to get an entire server's attention, but it wouldnt hurt at all
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on May 16, 2012, 08:31:36 AM
I was on another TTT server the other day, and it had a 'VoteKarma' Feature.
Essentially if you killed an RDM'er or lost allot of karma wrongfully, you could give a vote which would reset your karma to 840
This would take a large majority of the server to approve it, and we could even make it so you cant do it unless a regular or VIP or whoever is on. Opinions?

I like that idea - it allows  reset, requires someone of a higher rank to initiate, requires a higher-than-51%-majority to do, doesn't sound bad to me - hope it gets considered for either the temp server, or the main server, as it sounds very helpful.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on June 09, 2012, 08:15:50 PM
Xrain, I know you're limited on time and want to use whatever limited time you have to fix important things, but really, the karma and hitboxes are REALLY things that, IO, need fixing very badly - they affect the gameplay too negatively at times.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on June 09, 2012, 08:17:52 PM
Xrain, I know you're limited on time and want to use whatever limited time you have to fix important things, but really, the karma and hitboxes are REALLY things that, IO, need fixing very badly - they affect the gameplay too negatively at times.

You're asking to change how a game works. Source hitboxes generally suck. Thats quite difficult to change.
Or I could be wrong.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Ἆxule on June 10, 2012, 01:38:24 AM
Xrain, I know you're limited on time and want to use whatever limited time you have to fix important things, but really, the karma and hitboxes are REALLY things that, IO, need fixing very badly - they affect the gameplay too negatively at times.

Hitboxes are the same for everyone. They may cheat you, but it's fair.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on June 10, 2012, 06:46:16 AM
Hitboxes are the same for everyone. They may cheat you, but it's fair.
'

If you shoot somebody point blank in the head  - in the right area - with a deagle, or shotgun, and have enough karma for it to be a one-shot-kill headshot, it should do what it is supposed to.  Nothing less.

Too many times lately, that has not been the case, and its getting annoying - and other players here are noticing it too.  Funnily enough, on the non-temp servers, I never noticed an issue with it, which baffles me, nor do I notice it on other TTT servers, which leads me to believe there is something here that may need tweaking.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on June 10, 2012, 09:48:55 AM
I have a different connection speed on different servers, so the lag compensation changes
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on June 10, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
I purposely change quoted post text because I'm never wrong.


Please, lets not play this horseshit game.


*ahem*

That reasoning doesn't entirely make sense.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on June 10, 2012, 04:44:29 PM
The hitboxes are the same as they are in other servers, the tick rate is also the same.

It could be since the server has a stronger connection, some of the rates are allowed to be faster, leading to a different feeling of things.


Personally in all the times I have played in the server I have not noticed a change, I still shoot people in the head just as well as I did before.
There really isn't anything I can do for you in that department.

I think the most likely thing that is happening is the change in location is changing the lag compensation for you. While it is still acceptable, you have played on the previous server enough that you are used to the old server, and your play style has molded around that, this causes you to notice the difference and it throws off your shooting.

I on the other hand have always been used to large variations in lag, so I don't notice a difference. You will just need to adjust your play style.


Unless you have a specific idea on how to "fix" the hit-boxes, if you do let me know, otherwise... tough  ;)


For the karma, it seems to me to be at an acceptable level, the average karma in the servers is ~850-900 which to me is an acceptable level, perhaps a little high if anything.

So I have the correct average karma on the servers, I suppose the best thing I could do would be to change it so it feels more "fair" to the players, even though it seems to be for the most part.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on June 10, 2012, 04:50:07 PM
For the karma, it seems to me to be at an acceptable level, the average karma in the servers is ~850-900 which to me is an acceptable level, perhaps a little high if anything.

What I mean is, currently the scenario of "build up your karma, get it up to the mid 900s, accidentally kill one team mate -> karma drops 550-700 points" happens, and that is just completely absurd.  I mean, obviously a karma penalty should, does occur, but going from near perfect karma down to the 300s or 200s for one kill after spending time to bring it back up just feels all sorts of fucked up  but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on June 10, 2012, 08:15:06 PM
What I mean is, currently the scenario of "build up your karma, get it up to the mid 900s, accidentally kill one team mate -> karma drops 550-700 points" happens, and that is just completely absurd.  I mean, obviously a karma penalty should, does occur, but going from near perfect karma down to the 300s or 200s for one kill after spending time to bring it back up just feels all sorts of fucked up  but that's just my opinion.

you lose a max of 400 when you kill a 1000 karma player.
You're doing something wrong; stop.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: aerobro on June 10, 2012, 10:41:20 PM
The hitboxes are really, really, really bad
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Xrain on June 11, 2012, 01:29:25 AM
The hitboxes are really, really, really bad

Let me say this again...

THE HIT BOXES ARE IDENTICAL TO THE HITBOXES IN THE ORIGINAL SERVERS.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO CHANGE THEM UNLESS YOU CHANGE THE SOURCE ENGINE.

LAST TIME I CHECKED I HAVEN'T PUT A CUSTOM SOURCE ENGINE ON THE TTT SERVER.
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on June 11, 2012, 07:52:58 AM
LAST TIME I CHECKED I HAVEN'T PUT A CUSTOM SOURCE ENGINE ON THE TTT SERVER.[/size]

ok i lol'd
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Travelsonic on June 11, 2012, 08:42:19 AM
you lose a max of 400 when you kill a 1000 karma player.
You're doing something wrong; stop.

I've had my karma go from 960 to 330 from 1 kill many times on this server.  I have demo'd it practically every time, though later ones I still have since my external hard drive, with older demos from back when we still had dm_attackhouse_christmas, died and those demos were lost.  The latest time was only 2 days ago.

Xrain:  It is odd though that many users are having issues with the hitboxes, even though they are unchanged.



Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Deacon on June 11, 2012, 09:03:50 AM
I've had my karma go from 960 to 330 from 1 kill many times on this server.  I have demo'd it practically every time, though later ones I still have since my external hard drive, with older demos from back when we still had dm_attackhouse_christmas, died and those demos were lost.  The latest time was only 2 days ago.

Xrain:  It is odd though that many users are having issues with the hitboxes, even though they are unchanged.

Different server location
Different lag compensation
Different overall experience
Title: Re: What needs to be done to fix TTT
Post by: Shockah on June 11, 2012, 03:37:08 PM
I've had my karma go from 960 to 330 from 1 kill many times on this server.  I have demo'd it practically every time, though later ones I still have since my external hard drive, with older demos from back when we still had dm_attackhouse_christmas, died and those demos were lost.  The latest time was only 2 days ago.

Xrain:  It is odd though that many users are having issues with the hitboxes, even though they are unchanged.

Terminal essentially you lose half of whatever karma they have, however as your karma gets lower it is harder to lose karma, in parallel as it gets higher it is harder to gain karma but easier to lose. So in theory the most you can lose from killing a 1k karma at 1k karma yourself is around 500 give or take 50. (This is purely observation, but with the amount of times I have low karma every day, it's a pretty educated observation.)