Oh, lord.

[Seb]

Yes, but my gripe is that its unnecessary. What about MW3 or MW2 was too lighthearted that they needed to include the killing of innocents? Yes, we know that happens. We don't need to see.

Then there will be an option to skip it. Just like in MW2.

[Rocket50]

Then there will be an option to skip it. Just like in MW2.

And who actually presses 'skip' when the game tells you that this content is too hardcore for you and that we won't penalty you if you pussy out

[Cake Faice]

Yes, but my gripe is that its unnecessary. What about MW3 or MW2 was too lighthearted that they needed to include the killing of innocents? Yes, we know that happens. We don't need to see.

I could care less about the killing of innocents in MW2, and in GTA:IV I will lol at some of the glitches dead pedestrians will get themselves into.

They're not real. It's just a collaboration of pixels on the screen. You actually don't kill anyone in real life. The AI don't have a life of their own, they don't come home to a family with kids or anything, unless it's the Sims. Half the time they're just programmed to walk around/seek cover/and just follow a motion path.

[Deacon]

I could care less about the killing of innocents in MW2, and in GTA:IV I will lol at some of the glitches dead pedestrians will get themselves into.

They're not real. It's just a collaboration of pixels on the screen. You actually don't kill anyone in real life. The AI don't have a life of their own, they don't come home to a family with kids or anything, unless it's the Sims. Half the time they're just programmed to walk around/seek cover/and just follow a motion path.

Right, but the intention is to make you feel bad. "How DARE those terrorists blow up that little girl and her family while they are on vacation?! I'M GOING TO KILL THEM ALL!!!" It's unnecessary propaganda. We aren't exactly going to betray our morality halfway through the game and start fighting for the Russians. Just saying.

[Shawn]

We aren't exactly going to betray our morality halfway through the game and start fighting for the Russians. Just saying.

If the option was there some people would.

[blαh2355]

:/ I'm kind of in the middle of this issue. Sure it's like HOLY SHIT AN INNOCENT CIVILIAN JUST GOT BLOWN UP but also it's like meh, this happens everywhere.

[Mr. Franklin]

It's a game, and game are evolving into movies, pretty much.

[Deacon]

Thanks for actually, you know, talking with me about this Rocket. Lets clarify some things.


Never tell your password to anyone.
Rocket50: before i counterargue
Rocket50: are you arguing that dramatic scenes in a games or bad
Rocket50: or
Rocket50: just the shit ones in carl of duty
Rocket50: because im confoosed on your position .-.
Deacon: the ones in call of duty
Rocket50: and i suspect everyone is thinking that too
Deacon: specifically the one where you mow down a bunch of russian civillians
Rocket50: that youre against all drama
Rocket50: in shooters
Rocket50: Call of duty's civilian killing scenes is for media attention :l
Rocket50: Its just realllllllllly stupid
Deacon: well thats the thing. there can be drama. There can be soldiers dying alongside you. Guys that die before you can save them. thats enough drama. I don't need to pretend I'm a father recording the death of my 5 year old daughter in London.
Deacon: I agree
Deacon: but people try to defend it
Rocket50: im not defending the CoD massacres
Deacon: which is why i'm confused
Rocket50: uhh
Deacon: why people were arguing with me
Rocket50: better restate that position
Rocket50: of yours
Rocket50: :l
Rocket50: cake face thinks youre against drama as well
Deacon: i thought it was self-explanatory, given the OP. But I'll just post this chat

[Deathie]

I'm just going to say that
It is possible to have emotional drama
without having to show some random family getting blown up by a bomb.

Heavy Rain Gameplay - Cut FInger Off
(For those of you that haven't played Heavy Rain, Ethan Mars, the guy here, has to cut off the top part of his end finger to get a clue that will help lead him to his son. You can chose NOT to do it, but at the same time, you won't get a clue to the whereabouts of your son, and could end up in you not being able to save him.)
This is just an example of something that really did impact me, and how something so minuscule in concept, can leave such a big impact. The equivalent to this game would be showing the Origami Killer drowning his victims, by forcing their heads under the water. We don't need to actually see the kids being killed, just the knowledge of it is enough.


As Deacon said, "well thats the thing. there can be drama. There can be soldiers dying alongside you. Guys that die before you can save them. thats enough drama. I don't need to pretend I'm a father recording the death of my 5 year old daughter in London."

Come now, it's obvious IW is just doing it for media attention. There was ABSOLUTELY no reason for it to be in the game.

[Deacon]

Heavy Rain Gameplay - Cut FInger Off
Come now, it's obvious IW is just doing it for media attention. There was ABSOLUTELY no reason for it to be in the game.

This was my point all along. Sorry for confusion.


Also this was done really well....although whoever made the video probably should have given the viewer a bit of background first cause i'm lost.

[Deathie]

This was my point all along. Sorry for confusion.


Also this was done really well....although whoever made the video probably should have given the viewer a bit of background first cause i'm lost.

Edited the post.

[Rocket50]

I'm just going to say that
It is possible to have emotional drama
without having to show some random family getting blown up by a bomb.

Heavy Rain Gameplay - Cut FInger Off
(For those of you that haven't played Heavy Rain, Ethan Mars, the guy here, has to cut off the top part of his end finger to get a clue that will help lead him to his son. You can chose NOT to do it, but at the same time, you won't get a clue to the whereabouts of your son, and could end up in you not being able to save him.)
This is just an example of something that really did impact me, and how something so minuscule in concept, can leave such a big impact. The equivalent to this game would be showing the Origami Killer drowning his victims, by forcing their heads under the water. We don't need to actually see the kids being killed, just the knowledge of it is enough.


As Deacon said, "well thats the thing. there can be drama. There can be soldiers dying alongside you. Guys that die before you can save them. thats enough drama. I don't need to pretend I'm a father recording the death of my 5 year old daughter in London."

Come now, it's obvious IW is just doing it for media attention. There was ABSOLUTELY no reason for it to be in the game.

I think im going to be sick...

[Cake Faice]

Heavy Rain Gameplay - Cut FInger Off

Sweet mother of mercy. 

[Deathie]

Sweet mother of mercy. 

I think im going to be sick...

Also this was done really well....

In other words, fuck IW.

They try to be dramatic and edgy by showing the player something that SHOULD be traumatic, like a young girl getting blown up by a chemical bomb.

Yet something so simple as cutting off the tip of your pinky finger is executed so well, that even people who haven't played the game can feel what Ethan has to go through to save his son.

Seriously, people are just idiots when they try to defend MW3 by going "HURR THIS IS WHAT AKTUALLY HAPPENZ PEOPLE NEED TO SEE DIS."

I'm trying to think of other games that pulled these sort of thing well too, but none of them deal with realistic scenarios.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Another one that I still vividly remember was my playthrough of FEAR: Extraction Point.

Sgt. Holiday survived through the first game. In the second, he accompanies you for nearly the first half of the game, together, you were unstoppable force destroying all the supernatural baddies. The writing made you really become attached to him. When shit really got bad, he was there to get your back.

Then this happens.

> Spoilers <
Holiday dies in F.E.A.R. Extraction Point

This was one of the most heart-wrenching things I've ever experienced in a video game.
After that happened, I really did feel alone. When shit got bad, shit got bad. I didn't have my buddy there to help ease the fear.

Something like this (on a much less gory scale, I'm sure) is what Deacon is talking about. Having ANYONE or ANYTHING there to help make things easier, then to just have it ripped away from you in a couple seconds. That's what would really hit you the most.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, you should know by now that arguing with Shawn is completely pointless.

Oh, and

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The video only shows him grabbing the nearest tool.
If you search around the room, you'll find other things like a wire cutter, cleaver, and scissors.
You can also find a metal rod, and use it on a stove to have a instrument you can use to close the wound after you cut off your finger, leading to another, very agonizing moment, but being much less painful for Ethan later on.



Keep in mind, this moment can be skipped entirely, the player can just waltz right out of the room. Infinity Ward, where as Deacon put it "Basically asks you 'are you going to pussy out on this?'" just issues a challenge for the hell of it, and the only purpose of it is to make you > HATE < the bad guys.

With Heavy Rain though, the plot device of it isn't to make you angry at the Origami Killer, but makes you actually feel > SYMPATHY < for what Ethan is going through to save his son.

Thinking about it, they ARE doing the same thing, but unlike feeling emotions like Sympathy or Empathy, Call of Duty tries to fuel you with Rage and Anger.