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Clarification of rules regarding killing out of suspicion
Tezuni:
Remember when you could, as an innocent, alt+E stealth ID an unidentified body so the traitors don't know that you know that person is dead, giving you the edge in process of elimination?
Remember when you could elect to not take the traitor test?
Remember when you could stand in a damn doorway?
Well if we declare anyone's subjective suspicions as a valid license to kill, people like ursus will continue to be detrimental to overall gameplay and just murder you when they want to take a guess.
Suspicion should only serve to guide you towards potential evidence you find by following your hunches, i.e. you follow a player and catch them in the act.
If a staff finds that there was no tangible evidence, it should be a rule they are cleared to take appropriate action.
Deathie:
--- Quote from: Tezuni on October 01, 2015, 04:57:29 PM ---Well if we declare anyone's subjective suspicions as a valid license to kill, people like ursus will continue to be detrimental to overall gameplay and just murder you when they want to take a guess.
--- End quote ---
How often are you innocent when someone just "takes a guess"?
Monorail Cat:
Since we seem to love the CS:GO analogy, think about it this way. When doing overwatch in CS:GO, you MUST have sufficient evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Sure, this person may have appeared to be following some guy through a wall, but that was once, so it was maybe a fluke. If there was not sufficient evidence to convict him, you would say "Insufficient Evidence" and pass on.
Applying this to TTT: Just because someone refuses to test for innocence, or stands in a doorway, doesn't make them a traitor. Sure, it means you should watch them more closely, but you shouldn't take action because there is INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE to kill him. I believe you need evidence beyond reasonable doubt when you decide to kill a traitor.
On another note, it seems that the idea of metagaming is present. When playing with the common group of TTT gamers, I guess you'll eventually be able to catch on to the tiny behavioral differences of a person when they are Traitor. This should have absolutely no effect on your judgement of the person. In TTT, it's completely unfair to determine one's innocence based on the fact that you *think* you know how they normally act.
I believe that because of the fickle nature of this problem, here is my proposal for a solution: When someone kills a traitor under questionable circumstances, he should have to explain his reasoning, and the members present should decide whether or not it was a valid reason. If it was a valid enough reason, the subject may continue as is. However, if there was INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE, the subject gets a warning. From then on during the session, if the subject breaks any rules or has another questionable kill reviewed as INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE, he gets kicked. If the subject returns and continues his/her pattern, they get a temporary ban, and so on.
Deathie:
--- Quote from: Monorail Cat on October 01, 2015, 06:21:32 PM ---When someone kills a traitor under questionable circumstances, he should have to explain his reasoning, and the members present should decide whether or not it was a valid reason.
--- End quote ---
It really does seem like you're just upset because you're not a very good traitor. All the complaints have been over losing T rounds, while none of them have been over getting falsely killed as an innocent.
You keep saying "I shouldn't be caught as a traitor because I didn't do anything traitorous", but if that was actually the case you'd be dying as much as an innocent than you would as a traitor.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Also your overwatch analogy is terrible. Don't try comparing a crowd-sourced process for permanently banning people to a murder-mystery gamemode where rounds last less than ten minutes and the only penality for falsely killing someone is losing a round.
Monorail Cat:
--- Quote from: ホロ on October 01, 2015, 06:43:57 PM ---It really does seem like you're just upset because you're not a very good traitor. All the complaints have been over losing T rounds, while none of them have been over getting falsely killed as an innocent.
You keep saying "I shouldn't be caught as a traitor because I didn't do anything traitorous", but if that was actually the case you'd be dying as much as an innocent than you would as a traitor.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Also your overwatch analogy is terrible. Don't try comparing a crowd-sourced process for permanently banning people to a murder-mystery gamemode where rounds last less than ten minutes and the only penality for falsely killing someone is losing a round.
--- End quote ---
I see I should have stuck with my former wording. At first I was going to say "when someone kills another person", but decided that if it was inno-inno murder, we would follow the pattern I laid out anyways. I will edit it so that the rest of the community doesn't get confused by my poor choice of words.
Also, stop trying to direct this ordeal at me. I have not once, through this entire damn thread, given any names, to help show that this isn't a personal problem. It has been happening to other players, and that's why it's a problem. So stop trying to taunt me. I'm not making a thread that's describing how I'm "upset because I'm not a very good traitor".
--- Quote from: ホロ on October 01, 2015, 06:43:57 PM ---Also your overwatch analogy is terrible. Don't try comparing a crowd-sourced process for permanently banning people to a murder-mystery gamemode where rounds last less than ten minutes and the only penality for falsely killing someone is losing a round.
--- End quote ---
So, you claim that my analogy is a poor one. How? Isn't that kind of the process we are supposed to go through when we kick people? Actually, I think it's exactly the process we go through. We look at some sort of argument/dispute/problem, and we review it, and then make a vote for all of the members to decide if the person should be kicked or not.
--- Quote from: ホロ on October 01, 2015, 02:46:53 PM ---It's kind of like when people complain about smurfs in CSGO, saying that they should be banned for not playing at their level.
--- End quote ---
Now, I ask you: How is this related? I'm not complaining about people who think they're better than everyone else at the game completely dominating me, because from what I can tell, I'm doing pretty good.
This scoreboard has been brought up before, and I'd like to go back to it to help people understand that this isn't me, or anyone else, whining about skill. Now, doing some fancy math stuff, I found that the average Score/Minute of the top 10 players is 1.272, and has a standard deviation of 0.204. As you can see, I am above the average Score/Minute of the top 10. So please, leave people's personal skill out of this discussion. It is irrelevant, and will only cause unrelated arguments like this.
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