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Human immortality could be possible by 2045, say Russian scientists
·UηİŦ··:
--- Quote from: Seb on August 02, 2012, 03:03:52 PM ---Anybody here seen "The Man from Earth"?
Because it's very appropriate.
--- End quote ---
yes it is and i like that book movie
--- Quote from: Tiger Guy on August 01, 2012, 06:05:51 PM ---http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/07/human-immortality-could-be-possible-by-2045-say-russian-scientists.html
>If Dmitry Itskov's 2045 initiative plays out as planned, humans will have the option of living forever with the help of machines in only 33 years.
>It may sound ridiculous, but the 31-year-old Russian mogul is dead serious about neuroscience, android robotics, and cybernetic immortality.
>He has already pulled together a team of leading Russian scientists intent on creating fully functional holographic human avatars that house artificial brains which contain a person's complete consciousness - in other words, a humanoid robot.
>Together, they've laid out an ambitious course of action that would see the team transplant a human brain into an artificial body (or 'avatar') in as little as seven years time.
What do you guys make of this?
--- End quote ---
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Personally (Presuming I'm the typical metal-man with headmeats in Figure B), I make a body with both the lack of hormones (except my brain, I need the glands that come with it to function at least 40% myself) and the ability to partition and/or fragment my mind/delete aspects within it, so that I will eventually shove emotional queries into the cybertrash and be a titanium asshat for eternity without completely losing said moral compasses and ethical logic towards things that aren't me/squishy (Otherwise I'd be a terminator with a meat-processor).
The whole argument that occurs when I bring the Other Other Other White Meat to the table, though, constantly assumes that:
We are Figure B, otherwise the whole "It's only a copy of your mind and not you, end of discussion".
And results in:
We are like figure B, but we are so synthetic that it's almost uncanny to say we're cyborgs instead of androids.
Usually, my final jab at the though is:
One presumes that we can't alter ourselves once in that state of immortality. We just run the same prior to being nothing more that flesh and bone, albeit we don't die/age and thus go through the same emotional hurdles (like someone dying every now and then in your life as you are now) x100 (both positive and negative) when the drive that is our 'human nature' cannot deal with the fact that everything it has attached itself to in the 'normal lifespan' is no longer there/active, and that specific condition (which we don't even really know how one reacts to this) continues to persist each 'cycle'.
I'm thinking that, with what everyone IRL perceives as 'realistic trans-humanism', that would put a lot of strain on someone's mind, even if they were a anti-social psychopath
"EVERYONE DIES AND I LIKE IT, BUT IT GOT BORING AFTER THE 30TH NUCLEAR WAR"
"... I HAVE NO PURPOSE..."
Keeping the psychotic aspect in mind, what if they DON'T get bored? They become an insatiable monster with the longevity of a star and then some who probably will figure out a way to make themselves invincible to every sort of means 'everyone else' has
(in terms of stopping power and not throwing tomatoes).
Now, say we go back to someone who isn't devoted to twisting the heads off of newborns while listening to the remnants of the 2700s.
Obviously, most people are distraught when something dies. Some more than others, that's all due to psyche profiles and their differentiating amounts of tolerance to stress.
The normal person may be depressed a little, cry a bit, then eventually accepting of this.
I'll agree with that.
Imagine that over and over again for the last 500 years.
1000 years.
Shit.
Do you know how you grow up and then you look at the next generation and go "Wow, really...?"
You know the general stereotypical '90-year old bitching about the world today' ?
Conceptualize being one of the 3 BEINGS that can still speak "Old English", or English for that matter.
Imagine if (if society isn't already desensitized) living in a world where morals don't even amount to a rat's ass, yet you still try to complain about someone assaulting you and forcibly removing your right optical instrument for sale on the black market to your neighbor, who is currently eating some delicious dolphin steaks.
Your mind might adapt, but we don't even know if a mind could ADAPT and not simply break down (go apeshit) and suddenly become a new entity altogether. Or just shut down. Or not and stay frayed forever.
If the one with the carbon-nano-tube spine is the general everyman, the general everyman that does not wear 'swagger' or think it's alright to drive a modified back-loader over a ramp covered in unsafe pyrotechnics...
If they cannot fix the erroneous buildup in their wet-computer, they're fucked.
It depends on the individual with said laser-fingers. Most individuals geared toward this way of thinking are Technophiles, Trans-humanists, Tech Enthusiasts, Anti-social creatures and the sort that would sign themselves up for money, or simply want to gold-plate their nervous system. Mostly these people.
The foremost bunch may slightly object every now and then to what goes on and may fall from mental grace, but the latter don't even give fucks about anything except themselves, and as long as they aren't on fire, the world can continue hurdling into the sun as they play Call of Duty 5000000000VR II XDVXDGDVD edition on SINGULARITY MODE.
I guess what I'm trying to throw out there is that, from my P.O.V. and from what others feed me, the 'Human Condition' is the enabler of the trait we call 'Humanity'.
Tying immortality to that branch of touchy-feel-feels, you'd might as well take a drug that causes every social interaction-linked mental illness ever in the span of 1 second (This assumption of the shelf life of feels and state of being is a monumental uncertainty, but I'm only going off what I get).
Following the other assumption that there is no significant thing to alienate you from humanity sans the fact that you do not age/die from old age (and no visible metal columns sticking out of your ribcage), there will be no "I look different from everyone else/I don't have flesh anymore, what am I?" to account for when you lose yourself.
So none of that bullshit unless your forearm gets sliced in two, and there's some frayed wires sticking out of the bone marrow.
NOW IF WE'RE ADAM JENSEN'S BASTARD CHILD ALL OF A SUDDEN.
Yeah. You and your subconscious are one day going to have to delete that entry about "Being Human". And if not delete, REDACT. Accidentally Jizz on. Like, about 100 years from pre-immortality provided that there are still only a handful of cyborgs fucking about in the sky with their jetboots and laser vision.
Especially if you were 'normal' for the last 20-40 years.
You're now something-of-a-human. Was-Human.
Was-Flesh.
"There is no way that this poly-material hand will ever generate the feel of a real man."
"YOU CAN'T BE MY FATHER. HE HAD SKIN... AND A SOUL."
You especially won't hang onto that guise of being filled with blood and hormones if everyone (The general populace) treats you like something else (Unless you're stubborn as hell about your meat-parts PROVIDED THEY LEFT YOU WITH ANY and tend to cram Starbucks cups down throats every time someone calls you Iron-Man).
Just like how Adam Jensen "Never asked for this", you'll do the same.
And you know what I'm talking about.
One day you go "I WILL ALWAYS DO THIS HEUAHAEHAH."
"Hmm. You know what, I don't like this. Why did I do that?"
If you go and shove your hand into a wood chipper, don't you regret not having a hand later? (I mean if it's like you don't just get a neato hand-cannon that fires ionized plasma after).
I've seen people look at amputees like they have this disease. I don't even understand, but imagine those people if you've got this gaudy METAL FUCKING CLICKING WHIRRING ARMBOT ON YOUR ARM.
Provided that you'd have some immediately discriminating features about yourself (Like a tiny pulsating glow under the chest where your heart is) when attaining immortality, you'd better not want to be normal or loved.
That will take forever- OH LOL BUT YOU HAVE FOREVER.
But then you have to go back and consider how much mental anguish you can take, and whether or not you'll develop this HATRED FOR FLESH while turning into HK-47 and calling everyone a 'Meatbag'.
I could go on and try to argue about Figure C and the whole 'brain-flashing- thing, but most people will allude to the whole "It's just not you anyways" without taking in the fact that even if it's not you, it's a clone of you, and almost like giving birth to a child/succession.
It'd be like Unit Junior, God Forbid.
And I guess AIs derived off the back of a dead man's skull and subject to a singularity resulting in the current gen AI is pretty much just the AI off the dead man's skull etc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Also, the whole Fig B thing assumes that you again can't alter yourself and put your mind into a simulated reality that has a timeframe of 256 years/second.
You'd Damn Well Live Forever.
ALSO Figure A is screaming this scenario at me while slightly turning into Figure C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits
I totally want to walk over to my crisped self and be all liek "Y U NO CHECK CODE?".
Edit: Fixed. Not sure why it did that.
Foofoojack:
--- Quote from: ·UηİŦ··© on August 03, 2012, 12:14:33 PM ---Spoiler (click to show/hide)yes it is and i like that book movie
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Personally (Presuming I'm the typical metal-man with headmeats in Figure B), I make a body with both the lack of hormones (except my brain, I need the glands that come with it to function at least 40% myself) and the ability to partition and/or fragment my mind/delete aspects within it, so that I will eventually shove emotional queries into the cybertrash and be a titanium asshat for eternity without completely losing said moral compasses and ethical logic towards things that aren't me/squishy (Otherwise I'd be a terminator with a meat-processor).
The whole argument that occurs when I bring the Other Other Other White Meat to the table, though, constantly assumes that:
We are Figure B, otherwise the whole "It's only a copy of your mind and not you, end of discussion".
And results in:
We are like figure B, but we are so synthetic that it's almost uncanny to say we're cyborgs instead of androids.
Usually, my final jab at the though is:
One presumes that we can't alter ourselves once in that state of immortality. We just run the same prior to being nothing more that flesh and bone, albeit we don't die/age and thus go through the same emotional hurdles (like someone dying every now and then in your life as you are now) x100 (both positive and negative) when the drive that is our 'human nature' cannot deal with the fact that everything it has attached itself to in the 'normal lifespan' is no longer there/active, and that specific condition (which we don't even really know how one reacts to this) continues to persist each 'cycle'.
I'm thinking that, with what everyone IRL perceives as 'realistic trans-humanism', that would put a lot of strain on someone's mind, even if they were a anti-social psychopath
"EVERYONE DIES AND I LIKE IT, BUT IT GOT BORING AFTER THE 30TH NUCLEAR WAR"
"... I HAVE NO PURPOSE..."
Keeping the psychotic aspect in mind, what if they DON'T get bored? They become an insatiable monster with the longevity of a star and then some who probably will figure out a way to make themselves invincible to every sort of means 'everyone else' has
(in terms of stopping power and not throwing tomatoes).
Now, say we go back to someone who isn't devoted to twisting the heads off of newborns while listening to the remnants of the 2700s.
Obviously, most people are distraught when something dies. Some more than others, that's all due to psyche profiles and their differentiating amounts of tolerance to stress.
The normal person may be depressed a little, cry a bit, then eventually accepting of this.
I'll agree with that.
Imagine that over and over again for the last 500 years.
1000 years.
Shit.
Do you know how you grow up and then you look at the next generation and go "Wow, really...?"
You know the general stereotypical '90-year old bitching about the world today' ?
Conceptualize being one of the 3 BEINGS that can still speak "Old English", or English for that matter.
Imagine if (if society isn't already desensitized) living in a world where morals don't even amount to a rat's ass, yet you still try to complain about someone assaulting you and forcibly removing your right optical instrument for sale on the black market to your neighbor, who is currently eating some delicious dolphin steaks.
Your mind might adapt, but we don't even know if a mind could ADAPT and not simply break down (go apeshit) and suddenly become a new entity altogether. Or just shut down. Or not and stay frayed forever.
If the one with the carbon-nano-tube spine is the general everyman, the general everyman that does not wear 'swagger' or think it's alright to drive a modified back-loader over a ramp covered in unsafe pyrotechnics...
If they cannot fix the erroneous buildup in their wet-computer, they're fucked.
It depends on the individual with said laser-fingers. Most individuals geared toward this way of thinking are Technophiles, Trans-humanists, Tech Enthusiasts, Anti-social creatures and the sort that would sign themselves up for money, or simply want to gold-plate their nervous system. Mostly these people.
The foremost bunch may slightly object every now and then to what goes on and may fall from mental grace, but the latter don't even give fucks about anything except themselves, and as long as they aren't on fire, the world can continue hurdling into the sun as they play Call of Duty 5000000000VR II XDVXDGDVD edition on SINGULARITY MODE.
I guess what I'm trying to throw out there is that, from my P.O.V. and from what others feed me, the 'Human Condition' is the enabler of the trait we call 'Humanity'.
Tying immortality to that branch of touchy-feel-feels, you'd might as well take a drug that causes every social interaction-linked mental illness ever in the span of 1 second (This assumption of the shelf life of feels and state of being is a monumental uncertainty, but I'm only going off what I get).
Following the other assumption that there is no significant thing to alienate you from humanity sans the fact that you do not age/die from old age (and no visible metal columns sticking out of your ribcage), there will be no "I look different from everyone else/I don't have flesh anymore, what am I?" to account for when you lose yourself.
So none of that bullshit unless your forearm gets sliced in two, and there's some frayed wires sticking out of the bone marrow.
NOW IF WE'RE ADAM JENSEN'S BASTARD CHILD ALL OF A SUDDEN.
Yeah. You and your subconscious are one day going to have to delete that entry about "Being Human". And if not delete, REDACT. Accidentally Jizz on. Like, about 100 years from pre-immortality provided that there are still only a handful of cyborgs fucking about in the sky with their jetboots and laser vision.
Especially if you were 'normal' for the last 20-40 years.
You're now something-of-a-human. Was-Human.
Was-Flesh.
"There is no way that this poly-material hand will ever generate the feel of a real man."
"YOU CAN'T BE MY FATHER. HE HAD SKIN... AND A SOUL."
You especially won't hang onto that guise of being filled with blood and hormones if everyone (The general populace) treats you like something else (Unless you're stubborn as hell about your meat-parts PROVIDED THEY LEFT YOU WITH ANY and tend to cram Starbucks cups down throats every time someone calls you Iron-Man).
Just like how Adam Jensen "Never asked for this", you'll do the same.
And you know what I'm talking about.
One day you go "I WILL ALWAYS DO THIS HEUAHAEHAH."
"Hmm. You know what, I don't like this. Why did I do that?"
If you go and shove your hand into a wood chipper, don't you regret not having a hand later? (I mean if it's like you don't just get a neato hand-cannon that fires ionized plasma after).
I've seen people look at amputees like they have this disease. I don't even understand, but imagine those people if you've got this gaudy METAL FUCKING CLICKING WHIRRING ARMBOT ON YOUR ARM.
Provided that you'd have some immediately discriminating features about yourself (Like a tiny pulsating glow under the chest where your heart is) when attaining immortality, you'd better not want to be normal or loved.
That will take forever- OH LOL BUT YOU HAVE FOREVER.
But then you have to go back and consider how much mental anguish you can take, and whether or not you'll develop this HATRED FOR FLESH while turning into HK-47 and calling everyone a 'Meatbag'.
I could go on and try to argue about Figure C and the whole 'brain-flashing- thing, but most people will allude to the whole "It's just not you anyways" without taking in the fact that even if it's not you, it's a clone of you, and almost like giving birth to a child/succession.
It'd be like Unit Junior, God Forbid.
And I guess AIs derived off the back of a dead man's skull and subject to a singularity resulting in the current gen AI is pretty much just the AI off the dead man's skull etc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Also, the whole Fig B thing assumes that you again can't alter yourself and put your mind into a simulated reality that has a timeframe of 256 years/second.
You'd Damn Well Live Forever.
ALSO Figure A is screaming this scenario at me while slightly turning into Figure C
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_%28The_Outer_Limits%29[/url]
I totally want to walk over to my crisped self and be all liek "Y U NO CHECK CODE?".
--- End quote ---
the fuck
Jhon:
--- Quote from: Nemisous on August 03, 2012, 10:20:00 AM ---Yes there is indeed people with prosthetic limbs that work just like regular limbs but these people have to pay and arm and a leg... horrible pun. Most people have rather simple prosthetic limbs that are made of acrylic and have simple sensors that open and close with the movement of the stump. These modern prosthetic limbs cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and are complex and are difficult to make because they use rare materials like titanium and other alloys and hard plastics.
But I think your thinking way to hard about this, think of it what is the number one weakness of a robot...... and EMP. The EMP would shut off everyone and the brains would rot killing everyone. The very electronics keeping us alive would get fried.
while a normal human would be fine.
--- End quote ---
I actually checked and from a couple of sources (Wiki's one of them) they usually cost between 10k to 15k USD and sometimes 35K. That's not a lot for many people and the cost will probably go down in time.
And as for EMP, they'll just have to find a solution for that. Think about it this way, with a body made from some super-strong material a grenade won't harm you, but an EMP will. The method will just change that's all.
--- Quote from: memo3300 on August 03, 2012, 11:28:01 AM ---
Harder, but nothing makes someone invencible. (as far we know yet)
--- End quote ---
No one said invincible, just the "ability" to live forever.
@·UηİŦ··© - I read it all, but since I'm lazy I'll just say this - Things will change when people will be immortal, we will "evolve" like we did when computers, phones and the "internet" were introduced to the world. It's true that this is "slightly" different, but this what's evolution all about. If it will fail we might go extinct and if it won't we will evolve and live forever. Nothing to lose imo, because if we won't evolve we might go extinct anyway.
Cake Faice:
--- Quote from: Jhon on August 03, 2012, 03:16:04 PM ---I actually checked and from a couple of sources (Wiki's one of them) they usually cost between 10k to 15k USD and sometimes 35K. That's not a lot for many people and the cost will probably go down in time.
--- End quote ---
Dude what.
Maybe if you have a job as a district attorney with a expensive Porsche/have a nice college degree that may not be a lot. But to a large majority of people in the current state of the US economy with unemployment rates, that is a heap amount.
Nemisous:
--- Quote from: Jhon on August 03, 2012, 03:16:04 PM ---I actually checked and from a couple of sources (Wiki's one of them) they usually cost between 10k to 15k USD and sometimes 35K. That's not a lot for many people and the cost will probably go down in time.
And as for EMP, they'll just have to find a solution for that. Think about it this way, with a body made from some super-strong material a grenade won't harm you, but an EMP will. The method will just change that's all.
--- End quote ---
As cake face said even 10-35 grand is a lot of money, and the price wouldn't go down it would increase because the more we make something the higher the demand is. there isn't a way to change the method unless you can find another way to power and object without electricity or metal object that a current passes through like wires.
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