Author Topic: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?  (Read 287 times)

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Offline Travelsonic

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Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« on: February 11, 2012, 11:33:17 AM »
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There have been a lot of suggestions for improving stronghold, ZS, TTT, etc, and was wondering if we could work with the people hosting the temporary servers to possibly testbed some of these ideas?

For example, on one thread I came up with this idea-that-still-needs-refinement to better handle karma in TTT, RDMers, first blood RDMing, and removing the fear of killing the wrong dude, etc:
Quote
The recalculation of karma for teamkilling yes, but there isn't anything for not screwing the karma of someone killing an RDMer or teamkiller.

IMO:

We should add a mechanism that does the following:

If someone kills another player who is on the same team, he or she loses karma, BUT if the person killed ends up killing Y number of team mates > 0, karma is recalculated, and the loss is far from dramatic - this would apply even to the killing of an RDMing detective, in which case the regained karma would be higher to offset the massive loss from killing a detective as an inno or fellow detective. 

On top of that, add a mechanism that does this:  If a guy kills a Traitor as inno or detective, and the Traitors collectively have damaged or killed nobody, that person suffers karma loss - the intent being to deter or prevent first blood RDMing.     The only issue I see with this idea is if a T has a knife or C4 or Newton Launcher, etc, and shows it, or uses it, or tries to use it, then that is grounds to kill said person, to recognize that exception make it so if the Traitor was carrying a knife when he died, or had just thrown or used it, then this karma loss would not occur. 

An explanation of the above idea:

Round begins:

Inno v T

If Ts have damaged or killed nobody:

- If Traitor is carrying a Traitor only tool or weapon and it is visible, or if he/she had just used one in plain sight, or said traitor is disguised:  No karma loss for damage or kill
- OTHERWISE: small karma loss for damage, median for kill?

It needs work, but the idea I outline above would, IMO of course, help A LOT in offsetting the effect of killing RDMers, and help deter first blood RDMing without nuking the system outright.

which, once I learn LUA, I'd be happy to code if we could have a testbed.

[of course, so far as TTT goes, if I ever get my own thing going, having wanted to host my own TTT games, I'd testbed ideas there, but it'd be cool if potential ideas for future rNd server / game fixes could get a proper testing that way when the servers go back up in 6mo we could approach Coolz and say we have this idea, tested, we'd like to see it added to the rNd server [whichever gamemode it is for]]

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Offline Eion Kilant 739

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2012, 01:12:36 PM »
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According to an admin, the less karma lost from killing RDMers is already calculated...

As for the Traitor RDMing mechanism, it should also be if all of the Traitors have not bought any non-passive T items (such as anything that isn't body armor). There is still a problem though, Traitors may do Traitorous map-specific things such as opening the trapdoor on ttt_thething. I think that it would not be a very good idea.
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Offline Pilgrim

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 02:23:41 AM »
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I was thinking about this sort of thing about the Temp servers, since the rotation server seems like it will be switching game mode every few weeks, what if we add certain game modes that have been disputed in the community due to differing opinions? game modes such as RP(don't mind which type) a few others could be used is-well. (cant think of any ATM)

also, on the karma issue, it could work, but it would need alopt of testing and approval to actually be implemented on RND severs

Offline Travelsonic

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 04:57:36 AM »
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According to an admin, the less karma lost from killing RDMers is already calculated...

Not exactly - IIRC of course

Karma is updated behind the scenes, but not such to my knowledge that if you kill somebody who RDM'd you'll get anything back from that being a jusifiably made kill.
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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 07:42:26 AM »
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 08:03:49 AM »
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game modes such as RP(don't mind which type)

The problem with RP is its always dead because people don't like getting invested in something when they know in a fews week all the money/stuff they did/got will be for nothing and just deleted. RP's only work well when its a perm server.

Offline Xrain

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2012, 10:45:13 AM »
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The problem with RP is its always dead because people don't like getting invested in something when they know in a fews week all the money/stuff they did/got will be for nothing and just deleted. RP's only work well when its a perm server.

We have had a perm RP server a few times. Mostly RP servers require a very active management and community around them to be successful. So far there hasn't really been a sufficient drive to make a successful RP server. It's all based on the players as to how good the server is.

So far the best we have come up with is a few people going "Oh hey I'd really like an RP server!"
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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 02:00:30 PM »
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We have had a perm RP server a few times. Mostly RP servers require a very active management and community around them to be successful. So far there hasn't really been a sufficient drive to make a successful RP server. It's all based on the players as to how good the server is.

So far the best we have come up with is a few people going "Oh hey I'd really like an RP server!"

Tiger and I really do want PERP.


Offline Xrain

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2012, 10:52:29 AM »
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Tiger and I really do want PERP.

... a few people going "Oh hey I'd really like an RP server!"

 ;)
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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 02:14:34 PM »
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The TTT traitor with knife = no karma loss idea etc. is just awful #1. It is WAY too overcomplicated #2. Yes if you kill someone who has already killed an innocent you lose karma accordingly as in if a 1k karma rdms a 1k karma and you kill him because you think he's a T not an rdmer you will lose half of that mans final karma 1k-500 for killing the 1k = 500 karma left on the guy you killed which means, you lose 250 #3. If you play ttt as much as I do you realize that is more then 25% of the communities goal to ruin others day and with this whole wielding a knife thing and purchasing equipment, what if the t holds out the equipment to get shot then when low health drops it or puts it away this causes karma loss for said inno it would be far to hard to code such a complex system of karma loss unless you're really confident in your abilities and even so it's a bad idea anyway #4. Things are PERFECT the way they are now those who complain either A don't play that much so they don't have time to worry about karma or B really need to learn the difference between traitor and karma baiter.... sorry for the DREADFUL grammatical errors I was just focussing on getting the point across

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 05:17:09 PM »
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Tiger, Photo and I really do want PERP.

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 08:52:48 AM »
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The TTT traitor with knife = no karma loss idea etc. is just awful #1. It is WAY too overcomplicated #2. Yes if you kill someone who has already killed an innocent you lose karma accordingly as in if a 1k karma rdms a 1k karma and you kill him because you think he's a T not an rdmer you will lose half of that mans final karma 1k-500 for killing the 1k = 500 karma left on the guy you killed which means, you lose 250 #3. If you play ttt as much as I do you realize that is more then 25% of the communities goal to ruin others day and with this whole wielding a knife thing and purchasing equipment, what if the t holds out the equipment to get shot then when low health drops it or puts it away this causes karma loss for said inno it would be far to hard to code such a complex system of karma loss unless you're really confident in your abilities and even so it's a bad idea anyway #4. Things are PERFECT the way they are now those who complain either A don't play that much so they don't have time to worry about karma or B really need to learn the difference between traitor and karma baiter.... sorry for the DREADFUL grammatical errors I was just focussing on getting the point across

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Offline Travelsonic

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 12:04:25 PM »
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OBVIOUSLY things are NOT perfect the way they are given the issues that have, and continue to be raised on the server. [And many of those complaining are here quite often, if not almost all the time, so I don't know where you get off making baseless generalizations] 

YES the ideas I post may not be simple, but usually ideas that are meant to be extensive, and well implemented, AND address a number of issues effectively, aren't a few lines of code slapped together.  They tend to be more complicated, especially in a gamemode like TTT where there are many variables to consider.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 12:06:12 PM by Travelsonic »
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Offline Shockah

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2012, 07:42:28 PM »
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OBVIOUSLY things are NOT perfect the way they are given the issues that have, and continue to be raised on the server. [And many of those complaining are here quite often, if not almost all the time, so I don't know where you get off making baseless generalizations] 

YES the ideas I post may not be simple, but usually ideas that are meant to be extensive, and well implemented, AND address a number of issues effectively, aren't a few lines of code slapped together.  They tend to be more complicated, especially in a gamemode like TTT where there are many variables to consider.

Are you not making a baseless generalization off your own experiences, also by saying many of those complaining are there quite often? If you'd like to gather a list of those in support of changing the karma system  and their reasons why so we can both, myself included have actual evidence to support are claims as to why we think what we think, then do so. As of now however it is not fair for either of us myself included to speak on behalf of the community because I'm sure we both know it's a tough topic and is split heavily. I apologize if I came off as harsh in the original message it just bothers me that though, yes there are benefits of changing the karma system the negatives seem to be oblivious to most who fight for reform (not you necessarily just making another baseless genralization from MY experience, note MINE as in not fact) where as I'm completely aware of the negatives for the system we have in place now and realize they are the lesser of the two evils, (IMO).

Offline Tiger Guy

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Re: Temp Servers as a Testbed for Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 07:46:03 PM »
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We should try out the Jihad.
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