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Support (Read Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:07:44 PM

Title: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:07:44 PM
Yes,I know you and your servers are quite strict on RDMing, but this whole "shoot someone once and lose 50 karma" thing is starting to get annoying, especially if traitors know how to plant evidence on innocents, which is part of the game.

This gets way out of hand when rdmers are on, which only further makes it hard to figure out if its another troll, or an actual traitor. I say keep the strict level down karma system, but make it more rewarding to kill traitors, for this will solve the "kill tratiors not innocents but if you kill innocents fuck you you have 200 karma" problem.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 03:20:31 PM
its fine the way it is, it makes u think before u shoot if u want to keep ur karma
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:31:56 PM
especially if traitors know how to plant evidence on innocents, which is part of the game.

This gets way out of hand when rdmers are on, which only further makes it hard to figure out if its another troll, or an actual traitor.

I'm not saying its dumb to think before you act, its just too punishing.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 03:33:27 PM
it isnt too punishing, it makes u think more and if u have a problem with that then go to a different server
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Foofoojack on May 13, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
it isnt too punishing, it makes u think more
And during your "time of thinking" you get killed by the T..splendid.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 03:41:26 PM
And during your "time of thinking" you get killed by the T..splendid.

what i ment is that u will be more catious of who you shoot,with the current karma system if u just shoot whoever u think is t, u will lose karma if u arent too careful.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:43:59 PM
it isnt too punishing, it makes u think more and if u have a problem with that then go to a different server

I'm not implying this server sucks.

I'm not saying were not thinking more.

You didn't even read what i said, you have to understand in world of trolls and morons (Gmod) you WILL shoot someone dumb and you WILL lose 500 karma for it, which is off the walls fucking dumb.

As I said, all im suggesting is make it more rewarding to kill traitors.

what i ment is that u will be more catious of who you shoot,with the current karma system if u just shoot whoever u think is t, u will lose karma if u arent too careful.

READ
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Foofoojack on May 13, 2011, 03:45:13 PM
I see what you're saying, like for instance - I'm shooting a traitor, Detective runs in my line of fire, I lose 300 karma for it. Not reasonable.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 03:45:53 PM
ok first, im not implying that the server sucks, i love rnd and its a great server, second if u shoot a troll dont worry, just let them troll and they will be punished, it isnt too hard to get ur karma up so just deal with low karma and let the troll get his banz
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:47:15 PM
ok first, im not implying that the server sucks, i love rnd and its a great server, second if u shoot a troll dont worry, just let them troll and they will be punished, it isnt too hard to get ur karma up so just deal with low karma and let the troll get his banz

You aren't quite getting my point.

What to TTT trolls do?

THEY RDM.

What to traitors do?

Get it?
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 03:49:19 PM
yes and like a said they're trolls and they will get whats coming to them and if they are traitors then u know what to do, after they rdm when they first join they have about 200-300 karma left and then if u shoot them u wont lose as much karma and if they are a traitor then they normally are obvious
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deathie on May 13, 2011, 03:53:29 PM
I see what you're saying, like for instance - I'm shooting a traitor, Detective runs in my line of fire, I lose 300 karma for it. Not reasonable.

I agree with this. The new karma system is one of the reasons I moved to ZS, and stopped played TTT.

inb4-youjustsuck

No. I have 1000/perfect karma. I just don't want to lose it over some random troll shooting everyone in the server.

Anyways, this isn't going to be passed. There's been hundreds of threads about this same thing, but Moo denies it every time.

It's wasted effort ;<
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 03:55:31 PM

Anyways, this isn't going to be passed. There's been hundreds of threads about this same thing, but Moo denies it every time.

It's wasted effort ;<

If its such a big issue why isnt it being addressed?
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 13, 2011, 04:04:22 PM
Because it doesn't need to be addressed.

Personally, I haven't had karma lower than 900 in several weeks. I do this by holding fire until I am sure. Yes, even if I see someone get shot in the face right in front of me, I think (The first step, after all, is to call out this person. Shoot later). Use tab throughout the round. And sometimes, you can just tell how people will act by their names, or their demeanor. If Mr. "xXxl3G1t420xXx" has 500 karma, and shoots someone, you bet your ass I'd rather die than risk it. If I'm wrong about it, and he IS a traitor, then it is at no loss to me. But if he's innocent, then I rage and bitch and make threads like I used to.

Sometimes, letting the trolls and rdmers kill you is the best you can do. And while you're dead? Spectate. If they keep breaking the rules, record and report.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Zeldadude on May 13, 2011, 04:09:01 PM
Although you're right, its still a little too compliacted for new players, but whatever.

Lock thread :'(
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deelpeel on May 13, 2011, 04:11:07 PM
Because it doesn't need to be addressed.

Personally, I haven't had karma lower than 900 in several weeks. I do this by holding fire until I am sure. Yes, even if I see someone get shot in the face right in front of me, I think (The first step, after all, is to call out this person. Shoot later). Use tab throughout the round. And sometimes, you can just tell how people will act by their names, or their demeanor. If Mr. "xXxl3G1t420xXx" has 500 karma, and shoots someone, you bet your ass I'd rather die than risk it. If I'm wrong about it, and he IS a traitor, then it is at no loss to me. But if he's innocent, then I rage and bitch and make threads like I used to.

Sometimes, letting the trolls and rdmers kill you is the best you can do. And while you're dead? Spectate. If they keep breaking the rules, record and report.

thats what i was trying to say this entire time
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Dale Feles on May 13, 2011, 04:11:42 PM
I think that karma system is very severe, but needed. How much players join the server, rdm everyone and leave? WIth the permanent karma it lowers the troll level and so on. The karma could use a little bit of tweaking, and I heard many complaints about it by players.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 13, 2011, 04:18:18 PM
Although you're right, its still a little too compliacted for new players, but whatever.

Lock thread :'(

It is pretty complicated for new people, I will definitely give you that.

I feel the need to plug this, if any of you have a problem, do it over PM.
Deacon's short and simple guide to regaining karma. (http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,5591.0.html)
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Hitman on May 13, 2011, 06:40:04 PM
My tactic is let them shoot me 1st so I don't lose much karma (100-200) when killing them.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: bipolardiz on May 13, 2011, 06:43:33 PM
lol here we go again.... Anywho I love the karma system as is. I have 1000 karma and it stays around 800-1000 at all times. Some rounds I get 2 T kills and I don't worry about killing them. If they were inno well damn I just made a boo boo. Guess I will just idle..... opps wait nvm.  :trollface:

Either way I feel the karma system is as it should be. All I can say is don't fall for obvious trolls like Shawn and myself! :D
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Seb on May 13, 2011, 09:01:45 PM
inb4mooragesandlocksthread

Seriously, Moo, be mature about it. A lot of people have complained, I think it's time for a change.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 13, 2011, 09:14:09 PM
inb4mooragesandlocksthread

Seriously, Moo, be mature about it. A lot of people have complained, I think it's time for a change.

if this were a poll, i would vote no
for the record.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Shawn on May 13, 2011, 09:17:41 PM
I have no problem with the Karma system what i have a problem with is innocents working with T's as in a T gives an Innocent a knife then the innocent runs after me so i shoot him and go FUCK! thats the only problem with the system >:(

Either way I feel the karma system is as it should be. All I can say is don't fall for obvious trolls like Shawn and myself! :D

Lol so true we love making people think we're the T :P
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: bipolardiz on May 13, 2011, 09:57:37 PM
I have no problem with the Karma system what i have a problem with is innocents working with T's as in a T gives an Innocent a knife then the innocent runs after me so i shoot him and go FUCK! thats the only problem with the system >:(

Lol so true we love making people think we're the T :P

Yeah Shawn we should probably bring that up, because I am still unsure after Xrain told us that it was perfectly find for T's to just give knives to inno's....
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Hitman on May 14, 2011, 12:13:03 AM
EDIT: I just learned you don't lose karma for killing people with low karma. (Which is bullshit since that just increases RDM.)
This needs to be fixed. Once the rdmers find out about this, they will keep killing people with low karma which will make it harder for us to regain them.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 14, 2011, 03:01:53 AM
EDIT: I just learned you don't lose karma for killing people with low karma. (Which is bullshit since that just increases RDM.)
This needs to be fixed. Once the rdmers find out about this, they will keep killing people with low karma which will make it harder for us to regain them.

Trust me, people know this. You lose karma, but very little of it.
I hate it when people do this
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: » Magic « on May 14, 2011, 03:21:10 AM
lol here we go again.... Anywho I love the karma system as is. I have 1000 karma and it stays around 800-1000 at all times. Some rounds I get 2 T kills and I don't worry about killing them. If they were inno well damn I just made a boo boo. Guess I will just idle..... opps wait nvm.  :trollface:

Either way I feel the karma system is as it should be. All I can say is don't fall for obvious trolls like Shawn and myself! :D

Until a minge comes along and my karma drops to 80

Can't get it back up, 'cause sabbath thinks it's funny to troll me :l
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Azi on May 14, 2011, 03:27:00 AM
If you kill somebody with 100 HP, it reduces your karma by half of their karma (or something close, as far as I can tell) and after the round ends you gain 30 (minus the lost karma for killing innos) karma, that's why it might seem you don't loose any karma for killing low-karmas. That's how I understand it, correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Don on May 14, 2011, 04:24:46 AM
EDIT: I just learned you don't lose karma for killing people with low karma. (Which is bullshit since that just increases RDM.)
This needs to be fixed. Once the rdmers find out about this, they will keep killing people with low karma which will make it harder for us to regain them.
That has been there since the very beginning of TTT ._.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Hitman on May 14, 2011, 05:01:16 AM
That has been there since the very beginning of TTT ._.
Never noticed that since I rarely kill people without a reason.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: yoshi on May 26, 2011, 05:03:55 PM
inb4moolocksthisthread

It doesn't stop RDMers to rdm.
It does the othey way around.

Don't get it? Play TTT and try to find out yourself.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 26, 2011, 05:20:05 PM
I disagree
It does stop them
after they have done it

They cannot continue once their karma is so low
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: memo3300 on May 26, 2011, 08:41:39 PM
Before this system people used to do RDM rounds and also killed people afk just for the lulz.

also before the karma system was added you couldn't play a map without a retard trowing a barrel inside a little run and another guy hitting it with a crowbar.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Mufasa on May 27, 2011, 05:27:42 AM
good idea would be to check who has done damage to you recently, eg, say a RDMER does 50 damage on you, and you're innocent, and in turn you defend yourself killing him, search the body and he's an innocent
then you think..
well crap, i just lost 500 karma for no reason

seriously, how can you think twice about killing someone who is attacking you? you would just think they were a traitor and kill them, you shouldnt be punished for other people breaking the rules

and when you do lose the karma, you spend the next 20 rounds grinding it back up

i'll have a look through the code later tonight, i think if i can understand the TTT system it would be simple to make a table of who attacked first+ how much damage they did, and factoring that into karma deductions
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 27, 2011, 06:35:14 AM
good idea would be to check who has done damage to you recently, eg, say a RDMER does 50 damage on you, and you're innocent, and in turn you defend yourself killing him, search the body and he's an innocent
then you think..
well crap, i just lost 500 karma for no reason

seriously, how can you think twice about killing someone who is attacking you? you would just think they were a traitor and kill them, you shouldnt be punished for other people breaking the rules

and when you do lose the karma, you spend the next 20 rounds grinding it back up

i'll have a look through the code later tonight, i think if i can understand the TTT system it would be simple to make a table of who attacked first+ how much damage they did, and factoring that into karma deductions

You lose alot of karma for killing people with alot of karma.
If someone with 10 karma shoots you, then you kill them, you won't lose more than 50.

this is already implemented, unless i am missing something.
.__.

This is why a strong rule enforcement presence is necessary. (read as vips, admins, and regulars that can fill proper reports.)...(ideaface.png)
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Sabb on May 27, 2011, 07:01:14 AM
In response to OP:
Sure, the karma system IS strict. But it really isn't hard to get your karma back up.
Just play the game, act cautiously, ACT SMAT, and you'll do fine.

RDM and karma is there. It's in the game, there isn't much you can do to solve it. Just keep in mind that karma is also to prevent RDM. (Which really, one way or another, does help. If someone is an RDMer, you can clearly see that they RDM, because they will always have low karma, and VIPs will watch them more carefully and probably be more strict when enforcing rules with them.) But anywho, RDM and strict karma is a part of a game. It's simply there, and whether you see it or not, the karma system does actually help. It's much more effective than what it was before. So, you just have to work around it while you're playing. THINK when you're playing. Don't just wait to see someone shoot you or someone else, as you don't know why they may be shooting.
I really hope you understand the point I'm trying to get across ;_;.

Just, instead of complaining about the karma system, acknowledge that it's there, act rationally in-game and work around it.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 27, 2011, 07:10:52 AM
In response to OP:
Sure, the karma system IS strict. But it really isn't hard to get your karma back up.
Just play the game, act cautiously, ACT SMAT, and you'll do fine.

RDM and karma is there. It's in the game, there isn't much you can do to solve it. Just keep in mind that karma is also to prevent RDM. (Which really, one way or another, does help. If someone is an RDMer, you can clearly see that they RDM, because they will always have low karma, and VIPs will watch them more carefully and probably be more strict when enforcing rules with them.) But anywho, RDM and strict karma is a part of a game. It's simply there, and whether you see it or not, the karma system does actually help. It's much more effective than what it was before. So, you just have to work around it while you're playing. THINK when you're playing. Don't just wait to see someone shoot you or someone else, as you don't know why they may be shooting.
I really hope you understand the point I'm trying to get across ;_;.

Just, instead of complaining about the karma system, acknowledge that it's there, act rationally in-game and work around it.

this
and
this

It is pretty complicated for new people, I will definitely give you that.

I feel the need to plug this, if any of you have a problem, do it over PM.
Deacon's short and simple guide to regaining karma. (http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,5591.0.html)
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: biggaybaby on May 27, 2011, 10:12:06 AM
The saving of karma is effective but the amount of karma lost, I believe, should be slightly reduced.

What I seem to notice happening is that players are now luring other players into damaging them just so they lose karma and become less effective. It also makes players too cautious to shoot someone that has been called out (due to what I "KOS happy" players that call everyone the think is suspicious out *cough* Tezuni *cough*) and leads to the game being rather easy for traitors.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 27, 2011, 10:49:25 AM
I don't think that the karma system needs to be changed.

I do think that we should be more strict on karma baiters. (innocents running at people with knives. Have i mentioned i hate trolls?)
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Orgazmo on May 27, 2011, 11:17:26 AM
The only thing worse then RDMers is people bitching about RDMers and their karma. Its part of the game and even the admins get screwed over but we don't mind because if i may say it again --> its PART OF THE GAME. The karma system is fine just think before you shoot(duh). Some of my favorite times on TTT are when I have only 10 karma. It makes your rounds less competitive and more fun, and if I may brag, low karma isn't that inhibitive as I managed 6 kills with 263 karma.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: biggaybaby on May 27, 2011, 11:40:07 AM
Well it may not be that inhibitive, but it is leading people to go AFK and "Karma farm".

But I guess you can keep the karma system and just auto kick the AFK players to free up slots.

I don't really care about the karma system (as I usually have 900+ karma, last time I played I held 1000 karma the entire time I was playing) but players are finding ways to abuse it.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Mufasa on May 27, 2011, 07:54:42 PM
You lose alot of karma for killing people with alot of karma.
If someone with 10 karma shoots you, then you kill them, you won't lose more than 50.

this is already implemented, unless i am missing something.
.__.

This is why a strong rule enforcement presence is necessary. (read as vips, admins, and regulars that can fill proper reports.)...(ideaface.png)

i dont think you read correctly, my idea was, to keep a table of Who attacked first, wether they are innocent or not, and how much damage dealt
for example

Player A and B are both innocent
if player A attacks player B for 50 damage, then player B kills player A(100 damage) as a result, then the code would see
"ok, player A attacked player B for no reason, and player B killed player A for it, player A was a RDMER, so let's not take 200 karma off of player B"
in short, RDMER attacks innocent, innocent kills rdmer, innocent doesnt lose lots of karma

equasion might be something like  if playerA shot first then Karma-=((playerBdamage/100)*(1-(playerAdamage/100)))

as for RDMERS having low karma, thats not true, plenty of new players come into the server, either not knowing how to play, or not respecting the server rules and rdm people,
some people just decide to RDM people after being in the server for a while too.
yesterday i had 1000 karma, some guy crowbarred me half to death, so i killed him thinking he was a traitor, turned out he wasnt, and i lost 450 karma from it
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 27, 2011, 08:03:13 PM
I like orgazmos explanation.

I maintain 1000 karma, easy.
Hold your fire.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Mufasa on May 27, 2011, 08:52:15 PM
only way to maintain it is to not shoot anyone at all, you can never be sure due to RDMs
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: cogsandspigots on May 27, 2011, 09:13:06 PM
only way to maintain it is to not shoot anyone at all, you can never be sure due to RDMs
Traitors: *attempt* or succeed in killing quietly or efficiently
RDMer: LMB taped down.

Also, if you know someone to be a problem in the past, hold your fire
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Mufasa on May 31, 2011, 05:13:17 AM
ok, bottom line of what i'm saying is, if someone RDM's you, breaks the rules and attacks you, why should you be punished? if its possible to prevent it, or minimise it, why not? why are you against it? it would only effect people who defend themselves against RDM, what il-effects would it have?
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: Deacon on May 31, 2011, 05:43:56 AM
ok, bottom line of what i'm saying is, if someone RDM's you, breaks the rules and attacks you, why should you be punished? if its possible to prevent it, or minimise it, why not? why are you against it? it would only effect people who defend themselves against RDM, what il-effects would it have?

it is not possible to prevent
it is a part of the game.
What I mean by that is:
Innocents will kill innocents based on false evidence. That is how people work.
Psychology is your friend in this game, trust me.

We're not against it.
but if I can figure out the difference between an rdmer and a traitor, I would assume you would also be able to.
I guess what i'm trying to say is

Learn to make smarter decisions.
People are so quick to assume that the person who shot them is a traitor. More than likely its someone with 400 karma that just joined thinking this is CSS, or someone who is a complete douche trying to get you to kill them because they know you will lose karma and get pissed off.
One of the best things you can do is let yourself die sometimes.

Always be aware of who you're with. If you ever get randomly headshotted and don't know who did it, you need to pay better attention to your surroundings.
Learn the players, since most of them are not new. Learn how they behave.

I am not trying to brag, but the only reason my karma dropped in a week is because I hit Jman with a chair.
The point of me saying that is that once you learn what to watch for, you won't end up with 500 karma.
Title: Re: Change the TTT Karma System
Post by: ursus on May 31, 2011, 10:57:40 PM
it is not possible to prevent
it is a part of the game.
What I mean by that is:
Innocents will kill innocents based on false evidence. That is how people work.
Psychology is your friend in this game, trust me.

We're not against it.
but if I can figure out the difference between an rdmer and a traitor, I would assume you would also be able to.
I guess what i'm trying to say is

Learn to make smarter decisions.
People are so quick to assume that the person who shot them is a traitor. More than likely its someone with 400 karma that just joined thinking this is CSS, or someone who is a complete douche trying to get you to kill them because they know you will lose karma and get pissed off.
One of the best things you can do is let yourself die sometimes.

Always be aware of who you're with. If you ever get randomly headshotted and don't know who did it, you need to pay better attention to your surroundings.
Learn the players, since most of them are not new. Learn how they behave.

I am not trying to brag, but the only reason my karma dropped in a week is because I hit Jman with a chair.
The point of me saying that is that once you learn what to watch for, you won't end up with 500 karma.

and then, just like that
we were playing trouble in dwarf fortress