.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers
Support (Read Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Sabb on February 12, 2011, 11:17:11 AM
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As the title says, I think the number of admins needed for VIP approval needs a slight change?
I just think it's now TOO hard to get approved, where as before it was too easy.
Now, I don't mean lowering the number of admins needed to +1 the app before being approved, I think there is another solution as well. (that would work as well though)
I noticed that very little admins out of the 9 that are supposed to comment on applications actually give their opinion. Not even a + or - at all.
So, it might be that the admins are not checking the apps enough? Or maybe they just don't want to post on it, because maybe they wish to remain neutral. I understand this, but despite that, I think admins MUST either contribute a +, -, or 0 on ALL VIP applications that come in. This makes it a lot easier for people to A) understand why or why not the majority of people want them VIP or not, and B) IF the majority of people even want them to become VIP or not.
I think this will give people a MUCH better chance of becoming VIP, and will be a lot more fair.
Also, if an admin can't, or doesn't want to +, -, or 0 all VIP apps, then they should be taken off of the list, because chances are, they are only commenting on very little applications as it is.
I also don't think that any VIP application should be locked UNTIL ALL admins comment on it, and if there's an admin or admins not commenting on the application, that their vote should alter the per cent-age of votes needed on the application. In other words, lowering the amount of +1's needed on that application, otherwise it would be unfair to the person applying.
This would also eliminate confusion for why people would be unapproved to become VIP.
I think this is really necessary at the moment, because there are very little amount of VIPs, and since that update of the amount of admins to +1 an application for it to be approved, there has been very little, if any, VIP applications approved.
So, overall, I think this would be very beneficial.
Discuss.
TL;DR?: GTFO, READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE COMMENTING, DON'T ASSUME WHAT I AM SUGGESTING.
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I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. It's a bit frustrating to never know why there's 9 "active" VIP approvers but you never see more than 4 or 5 post on an application.
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I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. It's a bit frustrating to never know why there's 9 "active" VIP approvers but you never see more than 4 or 5 post on an application.
Yup.
And I've been thinking of making this topic for a while now, and finally did decide to post it now, because I'm thinking of having another go at a VIP app, and there are some other people applying soon that I think should be VIP as well, but I just don't see anyone getting 6 approves on any app with the way applications are currently handled.
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I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. It's a bit frustrating to never know why there's 9 "active" VIP approvers but you never see more than 4 or 5 post on an application.
if only 4-5 post then it should be 4-5 active approvers, not 9 o.0
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if only 4-5 post then it should be 4-5 active approvers, not 9 o.0
Yup.
6 +1's to get approved, out of 9.
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Not pointing fingers, but 4 out of the 9 only commented on less than two apps.
:L
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I got Loobin to comment on my old one, take that nigras.
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I got Loobin to comment on my old one, take that nigras.
...and then got demoted.
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...and then got demoted.
:trollface:
Yeah, just like you!
Oh, wait...
you never got V.I.P.! :trollface:
I'm okay with the idea of a different approval method. Maybe not what was proposed, but yes a change.
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I got Loobin to comment on my old one, take that nigras.
Bitch please, commented on mine too, nigra.
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see what none of you understand is that 9 admin are on the list because if they post once it means they are actively participating
if they never post, i would never put them up there
also if you have a problem with some admins not posting because they could careless about certain users then we can fix that, i dont mind -1 any post on the vip applications because you all seem to want admins to post and thats what i would post, your wish has been granted, gl receiving VIP
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see what none of you understand is that 9 admin are on the list because if they post once it means they are actively participating
if they never post, i would never put them up there
also if you have a problem with some admins not posting because they could careless about certain users then we can fix that, i dont mind -1 any post on the vip applications because you all seem to want admins to post and thats what i would post, your wish has been granted, gl receiving VIP
Don't take it so negatively :/.
And honestly, I would really prefer a -1 instead of no reply to my application, to know you're not just ignoring it, and that may be just me.
And hell, Moo... you said it yourself a while ago that it wouldn't be a bad idea to make some sort of change to the VIP application system because so many fewer people are applying for VIP, and even fewer receiving VIP.
Don't just go and -1 every application that you weren't going to post on originally JUST because I made this thread and offered a completely legit suggestion to help... unless you honestly think they shouldn't get VIP.
My intentions of the thread was not to annoy anyone, or point out mistakes that anyone made... I never implied or meant to come across that way.
I never once even said that the admins that ore on the list should be taken off or not have been put on the list in the first place.
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see what none of you understand is that 9 admin are on the list because if they post once it means they are actively participating
if they never post, i would never put them up there
also if you have a problem with some admins not posting because they could careless about certain users then we can fix that, i dont mind -1 any post on the vip applications because you all seem to want admins to post and thats what i would post, your wish has been granted, gl receiving VIP
Haha, oh wow.
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naw u asked for reply on every vip app, and its cool i can reply on it, and so can most admins, if its an applciation they see they dont care about, they will post
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naw u asked for reply on every vip app, and its cool i can reply on it, and so can most admins, if its an applciation they see they dont care about, they will post
Yes, but you seemed to have skipped the "+, - OR 0" part.
You don't need to try to turn everything someone says around just to troll or make an argument you know.
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its not an arguemtn, i agree that not a lot of admisn post, and for that im starting to post, but i dont believe in +-0 if im gonna +-0 i dont post, but you guys want a post, so your right we should post more but if im posting its -1 or +1 cuz -+0 is fkin stupid
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Oh wow, he actually went and -1nd the apps.
I think sabbath meant that by replying to an app, he meant "At least let the person know you even know his/her app exists, and leave a comment." not "If you dont know the person, -1 the app".
Im fairly certain a +/- 0 would have sufficed.
:L
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see what none of you understand is that 9 admin are on the list because if they post once it means they are actively participating
if they never post, i would never put them up there
also if you have a problem with some admins not posting because they could careless about certain users then we can fix that, i dont mind -1 any post on the vip applications because you all seem to want admins to post and thats what i would post, your wish has been granted, gl receiving VIP
This. I'm not the one who +-0 because that's fucking stupid. It's either a + or a -
The reason why I don't post is because I don't think you deserve VIP therefore I'm not gonna post.
and nah we're pretty up to date with the VIP apps and we constantly check them - and if I see someone who applied who actually deserves to get it, then yes I +1 it. This comes in rarely - I rarely see anyone who I personally think deserves VIP.
I'm sorry I don't whore my +1's around to every VIP app. It's just that I don't think everyone who applies deserves VIP.
So bottom line: When I don't post - it usually means it's a -1. Even if I do post that -1 - it's not gonna count so why bother posting it?
I only +1 apps that I personally and actually want to +1.
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nawnaw not what sabbath said,
gamefreak (woops misread name was you sabbath) was upset and wanted all admins to post, and i dont believe all admisn have to post but, im takin that and postin for it and its all good cuz it takes a few seconds for me to post
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its not an arguemtn, i agree that not a lot of admisn post, and for that im starting to post, but i dont believe in +-0 if im gonna +-0 i dont post, but you guys want a post, so your right we should post more but if im posting its -1 or +1 cuz -+0 is fkin stupid
I disagree.
When I've posted about +-0 it's always VIP's posting in VIP apps, in that case it IS stupid and unnecessary. Same with Regular.
But in this case, if it's an admin, I think it is quite necessary, because then the person applying KNOWS their application isn't just being ignored by everyone, which I was wondering about when I applied.
EDIT:
You're all getting the main idea of the suggestion wrong.
The whole point of me suggesting it is for basically what I explained above.
It's simply to know that people are actually acknowledging your application, and not ignoring it.
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theres a difference between ignored and not having anything to say, wahts the point of posting +-0 when you have nothign to say and its the same thing
posting a -1 can tell the person oh this guy doesnt like me, i should see whats up... maybe he put a description why or a good reason why
posting a +1 can tellt he person oh shit hes cool with me
having +-0 or whatever tells the person what... NOTHING
not posting tells the person what... NOTHING
anything look close?
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Ehh.
Leaving a -/+0 at least lets the person know that individual looked over the app.
Leaving a -1 makes them feel that they aren't liked, or did something wrong.
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leaving a +-0 tells person it was opened up, not looked over
leaving a -1 is exactly what i said -.-'
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The system is simple enough..
Whether or not an admin posts -1, 0, or nothing at all, only the positive votes are counted: It acts the same way, it would not changed the fairness.
Since the nine admins are active, not posting means they have nothing to say about that particular applicant.
There is a time frame in place for applications to be locked if they are not approved.
If they wish, at anytime during or after the application process, applicants can contact the admins for reasons why they have not posted on the application.
The system is setup in a way where VIP privileges are hard to get because of the responsibility behind those privileges.
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theres a difference between ignored and not having anything to say, wahts the point of posting +-0 when you have nothign to say and its the same thing
posting a -1 can tell the person oh this guy doesnt like me, i should see whats up... maybe he put a description why or a good reason why
posting a +1 can tellt he person oh shit hes cool with me
having +-0 or whatever tells the person what... NOTHING
not posting tells the person what... NOTHING
anything look close?
What Death said.
+-0 tells the person applying that their application was ACKNOWLEDGED.
When you skip past the application, because say, you don't have an opinion on them, sure it might NOT be really contributing to the approval or disapproval of their application, but it gives the idea that the application is just being ignored.
THIS IS NOT REALLY TO HELP THE PERSON APPLYING GET APPROVED OR NOT, IT IS MORE SO TO LET THEM KNOW THEIR APP IS NOT BEING IGNORED, THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY READING IT.
EDIT:
Okay, OP should be re-worded and edited then, by "fair" I was referring some of the admins not actually posting on applications, and making it seem like they're just completely ignoring them and clicking the "marked all unread posts as read" button when they see an application.
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you dont understand, the application IS BEING IGNORED +-0 OR NOT, shit dont matter a +-0 MEANS NOTHING, same as NOT POSTING, you can say oh shit he ooked at my app and put +-0 shit dont matter, coolz believes that -1 dont count, i think they do means a hell of a lot more than +-0
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Uh. Give me a sec.
Leaving a -/+ 0 tells the person "I don't know you very well, or heard anything commendable about you."
While leaving nothing gives the impression of "They didnt look over my app, so that must mean they are ignoring me for some reason."
It's also a good thing for the admins to read what others have to say about the player.
For all the applicant knows, the admin who never posted just saw the app in the /update.php, and thought "I dunno this guy" and completely ignore it, while posting in the app at least says "I saw your app, and know what others said about you, but I dont feel it's enough of a comendation."
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Okay, my entire point here is that contributing a +-0 IS actually contributing to the person who applied, because it lets them know that you have actually ACKNOWLEDGED their application.
Sure, it doesn't help their app get approved, so?
Say an admin that normally would have +1'd your application just didn't see it and noticed that you applied, but if they did see it they would +1. Maybe they weren't as active on the forum and missed it. If everyone else has contributed a +, -, or 0, but they haven't, you'd know that maybe they just didn't see it then.
Again, my intentions of the thread were in no way to get into an argument or something, I just thought it was a good idea, and if it were implemented people would probably be more likely to apply. This is a big reason why I haven't re-applied again, because it just seems like admins are simply not looking at applications at all in the first place and not acknowledging who applied.
If you don't think this is a significant point, just lock the thread, otherwise the only thing anyone will get out of the thread is a couple -1 and a heated argument.
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the VIP apps are being looked at - we have other shit to do and we can't constantly "Let you know that we're looking at your app" because we are - we're up to date with the apps and we know whos applying and who deserves it or not.
But bottom line is: WE ARE LOOKING AT THEM. we don't have to let you know if we're looking at it - just fucking PM us and ask if we've seen it and most of the time we'll say yes we have.
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you dont get that it doesnt matter, we can look at whatever we want, you dont know what we look at, you dont know anything
if you want more admins to post so you can have giddy good feelings about urself for getting a post THEN SAY IT
because in the end none of that shit matters, what matters is whats being +1 or -1
your trying to say oh man we deserve a post, shit u dont deserve anything and if you did you will get a post
but now that people are complaining no ones posting we should post and that post shouldnt be filled with +-0 cuz what happens, NOTHING
u dont understand the end outcome its all the fucking same
if +-0 changed chances of someone getting vip then fuck man do it BUT IT DOESNT just like NOT POSTING
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the VIP apps are being looked at - we have other shit to do and we can't constantly "Let you know that we're looking at your app" because we are - we're up to date with the apps and we know whos applying and who deserves it or not.
But bottom line is: WE ARE LOOKING AT THEM. we don't have to let you know if we're looking at it - just fucking PM us and ask if we've seen it and most of the time we'll say yes we have.
I don't doubt that would be the case in your TS group, the thread's more directed to the younger admins.
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All you guys are taking this too seriously. Let me color code it so you can understand:
+1: They want you to be VIP and have a valid reason why.
-1: They think you shouldn't have VIP for whatever reason.
They didn't post: They didn't care.
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for once i agree with gamefreak, its that simple
LEAVE AT THAT and for the ones who want mroe admins to post AGREED and im gonna do my part and post
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It just seems like my argument is being ignored now, and the thread has gone too far.
Just lock it.
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The Prosecution withdrawls your honor.
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This thread = stupid
the arguments = stupid
I bet if I applied for vip today I wouldn't even get it.
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actually I would +1 you carp lol and im sure like a good 6 other people would
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Look, the last person to get VIP was iPounce, he was approved December 26, 2010.
He was approved with 4 +1's.
The minimum is now 6 +1's.
There has not been another VIP since iPounce...
Maybe my suggestion isn't the greatest, maybe it won't ACTUALLY solve anything, but you can't just say the system is fine as it is now...
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meh, i think there are a few people who should be vip who aren't.
Don't know if that's due to admins overlooking them or something i don't know lol.
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How To: VIP
What is VIP?
VIP is a privilege and is not something to be abused
It is not something you can demand or something you deserve
Please do not BITCH or CRY or WHINE for VIP
How to get VIP
* Members must PM an admin with their application
* If application is decent, an admin will post the application
* Admins will reply
* 2/3 ACTIVE Admins approve based on personal bias
* One week until applicant is judged for 2/3's
* NOTE: 2/3 is a fraction, not 2 admins..
** 2/3 MEANS ADMINS ONLY, VIPS CAN ONLY HELP SO MUCH
*** If the time is expired, and the app is undecided or vacant of votes - The application should be deleted and resubmitted.
**** If the applicant is beyond fail, the application is to be locked and not resubmitted.
Abilities
- Can start votekick & voteban
- Time between votes to 30s for votekick & voteban
Organize application however you feel necessary, remember having a better application will give you more of a chance to become VIP
If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a PM or send Coolzeldad a PM
ADMINS PLEASE READ
PLEASE DO NOT POST AN APPLICATION THAT IS A PIECE OF SHIT OR OF A PLAYER THAT DOES NOT QUALIFY
DO NOT GIVE THIS OUT LIKE RESPECTED, I WILL BE WATCHING AND SEEING WHO IS BEING PROMOTED AND GOOD REASONS WHY
PLEASE POST A DATE IN YOUR TITLE
If you ingame name does not match your VIP application name and u are seen ingame and admin is confused, they have permission to demote you without question
YOU MUST PROVIDE YOUR STEAM ID
ALL SUBMISSIONS WITHOUT A STEAM ID WILL BE DELETED OR UNAPPROVED WITHOUT NOTICE!
DO NOT DISTURB ADMINS WITH YOUR VIP APPLICATIONS, SEND IT ONCE NOT OVER 9000 TIMES, IF ANY ADMIN DOES NOT POST IT... CHANCES ARE YOUR APPLICATION IS NO GOOD, DO NOT RESEND UNLESS YOU CAN MATCH UP TO OTHER VIPS
IT IS STILL A 2/3 ADMIN VOTE, VIPS MAY ONLY HELP SWAY YOUR APPLICATION BY A LITTLE
nothings changed, ratios still the same its just most people who apply fkin blow balls or have acted stupid towards certain admins
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nothings changed, ratios still the same its just most people who apply fkin blow balls or have acted stupid towards certain admins
Sure, the ratio is still the same...
It IS an issue though you can't ignore that... It has gotten much harder to receive VIP, which before, was a good thing, but it has gotten way too hard.
One way or another, clearly something should be done differently, otherwise there would have been SOME more approved applications.
I bet the system for VIP was updated to 6/9 +1's after iPounce was approved too. If not, he shouldn't be VIP with 4 +1's.
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no it gets updated when admins who dont post, post
and they stay there because its not fair to not count them in
also i dont believe its that much more difficult than before, i believe that there are no worthy players anymore
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also i dont believe its that much more difficult than before, i believe that there are no worthy players anymore
Well that left a sizable flesh would.
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no it gets updated when admins who dont post, post
and they stay there because its not fair to not count them in
also i dont believe its that much more difficult than before, i believe that there are no worthy players anymore
Never has there ever been 6 +1's on any VIP application.
The most EVER has been 5 on Devie and Sheeps_Aholy's applications.
There was one app that got approved with one +1 even...
But none have ever had +6.
(I counted through all of them)
I do understand that there are more admins now, and so there will be more +1's, but still...
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One way or another, clearly something should be done differently, otherwise there would have been SOME more approved applications.
There is nothing that says a certain amount of VIP applications should be approved over an arbitrary amount of time.
If 2/3 admins agree or not that an applicant should have VIP privileges then that's all there is to it.
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Well, I can't wait for the day that someone receives VIP with the current system.
Unit then, locks.
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Ima just say something here cause I feel its related.
Reg apps need 1/3 active admin approval.
There have been A LOT of reg apps getting approved with only one or no admins commenting :L
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Ima just say something here cause I feel its related.
Reg apps need 1/3 active admin approval.
There have been A LOT of reg apps getting approved with only one or no admins commenting :L
I noticed that as well, but didn't make a point of mentioning it because Reg's can't really do much, and it's more for people that play Wire Build.
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I noticed that as well, but didn't make a point of mentioning it because Reg's can't really do much, and it's more for people that play Wire Build.
Just feel post should be edited cause its misleading and all :L
Edit//
HOT DAMN JUST GOT AN IDEA.
Not all admins play regularly on all servers same with players.
How is an admin supposed to know what a player is like if the admin only goes on wire, and the applicant only plays ZS?
Maybe the approval rate should be edited so the votes of admins who mainly play on one gamemode get a bit more veto power over those who don't. It'd take a bit of micromanaging, sure, but this would be a great way to get more quality VIP's into the roster.
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Just feel post should be edited cause its misleading and all :L
Edit//
HOT DAMN JUST GOT AN IDEA.
Not all admins play regularly on all servers same with players.
How is an admin supposed to know what a player is like if the admin only goes on wire, and the applicant only plays ZS?
Maybe the approval rate should be edited so the votes of admins who mainly play on one gamemode get a bit more veto power over those who don't. It'd take a bit of micromanaging, sure, but this would be a great way to get more quality VIP's into the roster.
Could work, but then again, it could screw up everything, make it too easy to get vip
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Just feel post should be edited cause its misleading and all :L
Edit//
HOT DAMN JUST GOT AN IDEA.
Not all admins play regularly on all servers same with players.
How is an admin supposed to know what a player is like if the admin only goes on wire, and the applicant only plays ZS?
Maybe the approval rate should be edited so the votes of admins who mainly play on one gamemode get a bit more veto power over those who don't. It'd take a bit of micromanaging, sure, but this would be a great way to get more quality VIP's into the roster.
TY for contributing to the thread, and I think that could be a good idea, but in practice too much work and too confusing.
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TY for contributing to the thread, and I think that could be a good idea, but in practice too much work and too confusing.
Still, it seems the issue is that the applicants are ignored because the other admins dont know him/her, most likely cause they play on seperate servers, and may never see each other.
The question is, how can this be solved?
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honestly both of you are asking for the impossible, this cannot be automated
no bot can judge people on their behavior only other people can
everything is fine as it is and complaining about this and demanding admins post on applications doesnt help your situation
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I usually don't reply on apps because as some of you might know I hardly play with you guys because of time frames.
So I am confined to people I have seen directly in game and talked to rather than just forum status.
I do go over all the apps.
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honestly both of you are asking for the impossible, this cannot be automated
no bot can judge people on their behavior only other people can
everything is fine as it is and complaining about this and demanding admins post on applications doesnt help your situation
Ignore my specific suggestion, I really do think something should be done to the VIP application system. It doesn't have to be the specific thing I suggested, I just thought it was a good, unique idea that hadn't been brought up yet.
The lack of VIP's is literally drawing me away from the servers, because there are hardly ever any VIPs on any servers and there is constant minging and idgaf if you think it's as simple as making a report on the minges or calling in a VIP or admin, because even that isn't simple... Rarely if I ask a VIP or admin to come deal with the situation, usually they're either too busy or don't want to, and it's really not so easy to report people, to get the required proof and such, because often it's just hard to get them recorded or something...
No admin or VIP can really comment on this either, because you don't know what the server is really like without a VIP or admin on it, because you ARE a VIP or admin, and the server is completely different when there is one on. They don't really even need to kick or ban often, just being there usually stops people from minging.
The system as it is currently, isn't even a whole lot better than the respected system that we had. It's just different issues in each case.
For the respected system it was too many people that didn't deserve respected constantly abusing or just not helping in the first place. Now, it's too few VIP able to manage the servers' minges.
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Here, I'll propose an idea.
When you "Subscribe" to the thread, whenever you look at it you will be presented with the following information:
- Which admins have and have not viewed the thread
- Which admins have and have not replied to the thread
- How many days left until your application is judged
This way, nobody will be left wondering if someone looked at their application.
As well, the list of active approvers should be more closely monitored, to make sure no applications are unfairly denied.
As a benefit to the applicant, I think those who post replies should be concise when giving a :thumbsdown:. The reason being that if they really do want to improve and be a benefit to the community, they now know everything they need to improve on. Problem fucking solved.
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Here, I'll propose an idea.
When you "Subscribe" to the thread, whenever you look at it you will be presented with the following information:
- Which admins have and have not viewed the thread
- Which admins have and have not replied to the thread
- How many days left until your application is judged
This way, nobody will be left wondering if someone looked at their application.
As well, the list of active approvers should be more closely monitored, to make sure no applications are unfairly denied.
As a benefit to the applicant, I think those who post replies should be concise when giving a :thumbsdown:. The reason being that if they really do want to improve and be a benefit to the community, they now know everything they need to improve on. Problem fucking solved.
I think that would be a great idea if possible actually.
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I think that would be a great idea if possible actually.
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I think that would be a great idea if possible actually.
It would be possible, with a few lines of code....
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It would be possible, with a few lines of code....
A few...? :-\
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I got a better idea make a Voter Rank because the Voters can be more as 10 they will be ONLY for this job that means they cant do anything bad with it and they would approve(unapprove) faster
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http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html (http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html)
1 - Magic
2 - Moo
3 - SMasters
4 - Devie
5 - Orgazmo
6 - Teeny
This thread is now invalid.
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I got a better idea make a Voter Rank because the Voters can be more as 10 they will be ONLY for this job that means they cant do anything bad with it and they would approve(unapprove) faster
If you're suggesting 10 VIP +1's to make 1 admin +1's I say no.
I thought it was a good idea at first, but a lot of people don't take it seriously, and just +1 the person because they're there friend or something.
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http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html (http://forum.randomgs.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html)
1 - Magic
2 - Moo
3 - SMasters
4 - Devie
5 - Orgazmo
6 - Teeny
This thread is now invalid.
i like how Danny got approved and not Sab.
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Didn't see Don's comment.
And yea, doesn't mean my point is incorrect.
I still think it's too difficult, but thread is already dead.
Lock it already.