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.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) => Discussion => Topic started by: Eion Kilant 739 on July 07, 2012, 05:58:36 PM

Title: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Eion Kilant 739 on July 07, 2012, 05:58:36 PM
So what do you feel about Obama's Health Care? Are you going to take any action? Will you move to Canada?

NOTE: It was decided in the supreme court that you (and the state) can NOT be punished for not using it.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Tiger Guy on July 07, 2012, 06:18:46 PM
>moving to Canada because of Obamacare

It's like people don't even try to research stuff anymore.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Eion Kilant 739 on July 07, 2012, 06:24:59 PM
>moving to Canada because of Obamacare

It's like people don't even try to research stuff anymore.


 :nu:
It was a joke, I know plenty about Canada.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Tiger Guy on July 07, 2012, 06:33:08 PM

 :nu:
It was a joke, I know plenty about Canada.
I knew that you were joking, but I've saw several facebook screencaps about people moving to Canada because of it.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Eion Kilant 739 on July 07, 2012, 07:34:13 PM
I knew that you were joking, but I've saw several facebook screencaps about people moving to Canada because of it.

As did I. I thought it might get a good laugh or two.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Deacon on July 08, 2012, 12:40:12 AM
You mean that I might be able to see a doctor for the first time in 4 years, because taxes might be raised a little?


Oh no
better
leave
the
country
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Cake Faice on July 08, 2012, 01:21:55 AM
You mean that I might be able to see a doctor for the first time in 4 years, because taxes might be raised a little?


Oh no
better
leave
the
country
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Sabb on July 08, 2012, 01:26:12 AM
I honestly don't know wtf it's about so someone please explain. I'm assuming it's just to switch to a health care system similar to Canada's?
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Tiger Guy on July 08, 2012, 01:30:07 AM
I honestly don't know wtf it's about so someone please explain. I'm assuming it's just to switch to a health care system similar to Canada's?
Basically it's forcing everyone in America to get healthcare. Not exactly like Canada's but closer to it.

In America, if anything 'socialized' gets passed, it means that we're one step from being a Stalinist regime.



Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: semy32 on July 08, 2012, 01:50:59 AM
Since I live in Europe this doesn't affect.

But how does it force people to get healthcare? I mean, like every year? Or every 4 years or something like this?
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Pilgrim on July 08, 2012, 02:15:27 AM
I thought it was a step closer to free healthcare?
Though I haven't researched it much.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Bovicide on July 08, 2012, 04:57:31 AM
I thought it was a step closer to free healthcare?
Though I haven't researched it much.

Free healthcare = "Joe cant afford be bothered with his own healthcare, but Bob could pay for two. Fuck Bob."

And don't give me that "do it for the children" bullshit. You make me spend my hard earned money for the "children", I'm taking my hard earned money elsewhere.

Even this idea of making insurance companies not able to judge based on certain reasonable criteria means that healthy 19 year old Sam has to pay more so that sick ass Don can get cheap ass insurance. Its all the same shit -- it just means that people will wait to get health insurance till they're sick. Wait... we HAVE to buy insurance? Shits unconstitutional -- you can regulate a preexisting industry with taxes, but you cant tax a non-existing industry (people who don't want health insurance) into existence.  Since the underpinning premise (people wont get health insurance unless they need it) is broken, the whole thing is broken.

Give Scalia's response to the supreme court decision a read, might teach you a thing or two.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: yoshi on July 08, 2012, 10:29:20 AM
What the fuck is obama's health care.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Tiger Guy on July 08, 2012, 12:30:17 PM
Free healthcare = "Joe cant afford be bothered with his own healthcare, but Bob could pay for two. Fuck Bob."

And don't give me that "do it for the children" bullshit. You make me spend my hard earned money for the "children", I'm taking my hard earned money elsewhere.

Even this idea of making insurance companies not able to judge based on certain reasonable criteria means that healthy 19 year old Sam has to pay more so that sick ass Don can get cheap ass insurance. Its all the same shit -- it just means that people will wait to get health insurance till they're sick. Wait... we HAVE to buy insurance? Shits unconstitutional -- you can regulate a preexisting industry with taxes, but you cant tax a non-existing industry (people who don't want health insurance) into existence.  Since the underpinning premise (people wont get health insurance unless they need it) is broken, the whole thing is broken.

Give Scalia's response to the supreme court decision a read, might teach you a thing or two.
Last time I checked, it wasn't making Bob/Sam by Joe/Don insurance, unless Joe/Don worked for Bob/Sam.

Maybe I'm taking what you said out of context, but you're saying that you don't want a tax raise so every US citizen would have healthcare? It seems like you're more of an 'all for one' type of person.

Also, people who don't want health insurance are just plain dumb. What's more dumb is when they give stupid reasons why they don't want to pay for it ("Jesus/God is my insurance!", etc.) Hospital bills are expensive as shit, so if they are in more of a financial hole if they get hurt as to if they actually paid for healthcare. They do the same thing for car insurance, so I don't see why it's so bad to do it on life insurance.

It's more of a common sense thing, not a "HEY! BUY THIS FOR THIS GUY AND THAT GUY BECAUSE YOU MAKE TWICE WHAT THEY MAKE" type of thing.

Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: cogsandspigots on July 08, 2012, 02:13:23 PM
Last time I checked, it wasn't making Bob/Sam by Joe/Don insurance, unless Joe/Don worked for Bob/Sam.

Maybe I'm taking what you said out of context, but you're saying that you don't want a tax raise so every US citizen would have healthcare? It seems like you're more of an 'all for one' type of person.

Also, people who don't want health insurance are just plain dumb. What's more dumb is when they give stupid reasons why they don't want to pay for it ("Jesus/God is my insurance!", etc.) Hospital bills are expensive as shit, so if they are in more of a financial hole if they get hurt as to if they actually paid for healthcare. They do the same thing for car insurance, so I don't see why it's so bad to do it on life insurance.

It's more of a common sense thing, not a "HEY! BUY THIS FOR THIS GUY AND THAT GUY BECAUSE YOU MAKE TWICE WHAT THEY MAKE" type of thing.

Stop and think about this.

What if you are a young, healthy person with no expensive medical problems.
Health insurance may be more expensive than out-of-pocket costs for, say, a regular checkup.
The person understands the risks involved and decides to take them.




Also, we would have no way to pay for this in our current state. Now, imagine what will happen when the baby boomers start collecting social security and go on medicare.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Bovicide on July 08, 2012, 03:12:31 PM
Last time I checked, it wasn't making Bob/Sam by Joe/Don insurance, unless Joe/Don worked for Bob/Sam.

Maybe I'm taking what you said out of context, but you're saying that you don't want a tax raise so every US citizen would have healthcare? It seems like you're more of an 'all for one' type of person.

Also, people who don't want health insurance are just plain dumb. What's more dumb is when they give stupid reasons why they don't want to pay for it ("Jesus/God is my insurance!", etc.) Hospital bills are expensive as shit, so if they are in more of a financial hole if they get hurt as to if they actually paid for healthcare. They do the same thing for car insurance, so I don't see why it's so bad to do it on life insurance.

It's more of a common sense thing, not a "HEY! BUY THIS FOR THIS GUY AND THAT GUY BECAUSE YOU MAKE TWICE WHAT THEY MAKE" type of thing.

You dont seem to be able to understand that making something cheaper for one person means someone else MUST pay more. Typically the balance is maintained by forcing high risk people ( people with prexisting conditions ) to pay more. However, they can't do that anymore, nor can they base price on things like age. So, instead of healthy people paying cheap and sick/risky people paying more, we end up with everyone paying quite a bit. That means that I, as a healthy person, am helping to pay for your bullshit.

This is health insurance. It is a product provided by a company for your benefit as well as theirs. Keep that in mind.

And as Cogs said, for some people health insurance isn't necessary. I for one have no outstanding medical problems, and probably wont pay practically anything in medical bills for the next 5 years. Thus, the choice comes down to if I want to throw some of my money away.

Frankly I am disgusted that some people are so vocal about their opinions when they haven't read a word of the bill.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Rocket50 on July 17, 2012, 08:42:06 PM

Bump.

You seem to have a blatant lack of empathy for your fellow, but less fortunate American. There are people UNDER the poverty line who cannot afford to eat proper food, let alone visit a doctor for their pre-existing type 1 diabetes. And while they are living in substandard conditions, you're whining about how your disposable income will be taxed more. What a fucking selfish mentality.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Seb on July 17, 2012, 08:59:21 PM
Bump.

You seem to have a blatant lack of empathy for your fellow, but less fortunate American. There are people UNDER the poverty line who cannot afford to eat proper food, let alone visit a doctor for their pre-existing type 1 diabetes. And while they are living in substandard conditions, you're whining about how your disposable income will be taxed more. What a fucking selfish mentality.

Darwinism at work. Why should I worry about the average homeless man if he has absolutely nothing to do with me? If I pass by one, sure I'll give some of my change if I'm carrying any, but for the most part it's their own fault they don't have any money. You reap what you sow in this society.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Deacon on July 17, 2012, 09:02:46 PM
Bump.

You seem to have a blatant lack of empathy for your fellow, but less fortunate American. There are people UNDER the poverty line who cannot afford to eat proper food, let alone visit a doctor for their pre-existing type 1 diabetes. And while they are living in substandard conditions, you're whining about how your disposable income will be taxed more. What a fucking selfish mentality.

Darwinism should not apply to man made structures of society.
It is not evolution that I was born into a poor family, had a bad education, and cannot afford schooling.
The underlying problem here is money; not that I am less of a specimen than you.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Tiger Guy on July 17, 2012, 09:08:55 PM
Darwinism at work. Why should I worry about the average homeless man if he has absolutely nothing to do with me? If I pass by one, sure I'll give some of my change if I'm carrying any, but for the most part it's their own fault they don't have any money. You reap what you sow in this society.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The thing is that most most millionaires/billionaires get to this level by exploiting the system, lobbying, etc. They do 'reap what you sow' but by fucking with the system.

I'm going to put it this way, which society would you rather live in:

One where everyone has equal opportunity, rights, and healthcare?

or

One where a small percentage of wealthy people get everything and everyone else gets scraps?
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Seb on July 17, 2012, 09:10:37 PM
Darwinism should not apply to man made structures of society.
It is not evolution that I was born into a poor family, had a bad education, and cannot afford schooling.
The underlying problem here is money; not that I am less of a specimen than you.

Many people have been able to rise from the depths of that, it's not a valid excuse for not being able to become successful. There are many roads to success, and quite a few of them don't need you to be born into royalty.


The thing is that most most millionaires/billionaires get to this level by exploiting the system, lobbying, etc. They do 'reap what you sow' but by fucking with the system.

Which is why I say we put a personal cap of at most one billion dollars, and all the other money that person makes goes to the government so that the government can use it to better lives in general. What the hell are you gonna do with a billion dollars? If you spend $1000 dollars a day when you have that kind of money, it'll take you around 142 years to deplete it (if I remember correctly).
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Deacon on July 17, 2012, 09:17:46 PM
Many people have been able to rise from the depths of that, it's not a valid excuse for not being able to become successful. There are many roads to success, and quite a few of them don't need you to be born into royalty.

I disagree. The reason low income areas still exist is because of lack of the things I've mentioned. You've been raised to know the difference.
What would you know different if those options had never been explained? If your dad never had a job growing up, but put food on the table selling stolen items?
And that was your reality for your entire life?
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Seb on July 17, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
I disagree. The reason low income areas still exist is because of lack of the things I've mentioned.

Because most people don't know how to rise above, exactly why it's Darwinism.

On everything else, sure, my childhood would've been absolute dicks. But I wouldn't try to wallow in the same pool my dad did. I'd try to rise, and if I failed I'd try harder.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Deacon on July 17, 2012, 09:30:39 PM
Because most people don't know how to rise above, exactly why it's Darwinism.

On everything else, sure, my childhood would've been absolute dicks. But I wouldn't try to wallow in the same pool my dad did. I'd try to rise, and if I failed I'd try harder.


I should've never got in this conversation with you.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Seb on July 17, 2012, 09:34:29 PM

I should've never got in this conversation with you.

Same.

We should leave discussions like this to /ab/.
Title: Re: Your responce to Obama's Health Care?
Post by: Rocket50 on July 17, 2012, 09:49:55 PM
.

Whatever anecdotal evidence you have of people rising from poverty doesnt represent every situation and Saying that anyone can be successful they tried really really hard is naive, if not ignorant. Theres so many variables, controllable and environmental that you cannot possibly dismiss all of it and say anything can be overcome.

On a side note, putting a net worth cap wont help except drive rich people away from the country.