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2 Million people from USA protesting declaration of war against Syria

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Prox:

--- Quote from: Jhon on September 12, 2013, 03:41:45 PM ---In that video it doesn't look as if they're using them as shields, more like they just feel like standing there, but ok. When I talked about human shields I mean against bullets or getting kids to run down a dangerous street after the Israeli army warned civilians not to go there, or send a child with a gun to shoot at Israeli soldiers since they know they won't shoot a child.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, those Palestinians definitely wanted to chill with the IDF who were occupying their country. Makes sense.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
Israeli Soldier Beats Up Civilian
You also might want to do some research on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which was basically an illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel. I'd also would like to remind you that Israel has used chemical weapons against civilians, something that Hezbollah or Iran have never done.

--- Quote from: Jhon on September 12, 2013, 03:41:45 PM ---Hamas use Children as Human Sheild in Gaza  -  A somewhat related video. I currently can't find videos of Hezbollah using civilians as human shields, but it's known that Hezbollah shoots rockets right beside residential buildings and I've seen many of them before. Although I did find this video - Hizbullah's war tactics

--- End quote ---
As far as I know Hamas is not Hezbollah.
The second video has literally no proof at all, it's just a man talking how bad the Hezbollah is without presenting any kind of evidance at all. What's even better is that he's a former IDF intelligence officer. Do you really believe that this video holds any amount of proof at all?
Also have you ever thought why do many of arab citizens actually support Hezbollah and why does the west hate them so much?
Because they fight against illegal occupation of Palestine and oppose the Israel's Zionist regime.



--- Quote from: Jhon on September 12, 2013, 03:41:45 PM ---In my opinion Iran is worse.

--- End quote ---
>being this deluded

God damn there is so much more bad that can be said about Israel that I don't even think it's worth to continue unless any of you are actually interested.


--- Quote from: Tezuni on September 12, 2013, 03:45:22 PM ---Here's the problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_complex

Here's the solution:
http://www.wolf-pac.com/

This is just another iraq, and it will happen again and again until we fix the system.

--- End quote ---
Military complex definitely benefits greatly from all these wars but from what I have seen so far it is more likely, far more likely that Israel is the root cause for all of those problems.

Jhon:

--- Quote from: Prox on September 13, 2013, 05:06:31 AM ---Yeah, those Palestinians definitely wanted to chill with the IDF who were occupying their country. Makes sense.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
Israeli Soldier Beats Up Civilian
You also might want to do some research on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which was basically an illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel. I'd also would like to remind you that Israel has used chemical weapons against civilians, something that Hezbollah or Iran have never done.As far as I know Hamas is not Hezbollah.
The second video has literally no proof at all, it's just a man talking how bad the Hezbollah is without presenting any kind of evidance at all. What's even better is that he's a former IDF intelligence officer. Do you really believe that this video holds any amount of proof at all?
Also have you ever thought why do many of arab citizens actually support Hezbollah and why does the west hate them so much?
Because they fight against illegal occupation of Palestine and oppose the Israel's Zionist regime.

>being this deluded

God damn there is so much more bad that can be said about Israel that I don't even think it's worth to continue unless any of you are actually interested.
Military complex definitely benefits greatly from all these wars but from what I have seen so far it is more likely, far more likely that Israel is the root cause for all of those problems.

--- End quote ---

The problems with all of these videos is that you never get to see the background or the real explenation, although it's not unheard of that soldiers lose their tempers in every army. You can see this in the 2nd video, the guy there is threatening the soldier and probably spat on them/threw rocks at them like what usually happens, so the soldier lost his temper. Though shooting that directly at them has no excuse and I bet those soldiers were put in jail afterwards.

You say occupying "their" land, but all they had was temporary living quarters like tents and most of them were nomads, it was no country. They never had a problem with the Israelis being there and the Israelis didn't have a problem with them. The Israelis actually bought the lands from them and built buildings where there were no Palestinians. The Palestinians were the first to attack the Israelis.
Plus, when Israel suggested the 2 states (1 Palestine and 1 Israel), the Palestinians denied and wanted the whole country to themselves. That's when Israel was attacked from all sides and they've still won......So it's theirs.

The only reasons Hezbollah isn't using the chemical weapons they have - http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165884#.UjMlp8Zbl8E
Iran has used chemical weapons in the past - http://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/history-irans-chemical-weapon-related-efforts

When you're talking about Israel using chemical weapons, you're talking about white phosphorus, right? Even though they might've have really used it to defend themselves, they've still killed many civilians. It's true that it's horrible, but for all I know that was the first and last time. It's quite hard not to harm civilians when the terrorists are attacking so nearby and even from inside residential buildings.

There are other videos in the playlist there, but it's true I haven't found proof for that on Youtube (Hezbollah using human shields).

I said the second video has no proof, but they did say he has written a report with proofs, I just didn't look for it and thought you might be interested to look.

The number of wars and territorial disputes in Israel is obviously high when they are surrounded by enemies. If they won't defend themselves, they'll be wiped out.

Prox:
Since you clearly ignore most of the evidence or say that it was justified I won't bother looking for much sources anymore.

--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---The problems with all of these videos is that you never get to see the background or the real explenation, although it's not unheard of that soldiers lose their tempers in every army. You can see this in the 2nd video, the guy there is threatening the soldier and probably spat on them/threw rocks at them like what usually happens, so the soldier lost his temper. Though shooting that directly at them has no excuse and I bet those soldiers were put in jail afterwards.

--- End quote ---
So when Israelis are doing it you say shit happens but when Hezbollah does it they're terrorists? Nice double standards.


--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---You say occupying "their" land, but all they had was temporary living quarters like tents and most of them were nomads, it was no country. They never had a problem with the Israelis being there and the Israelis didn't have a problem with them. The Israelis actually bought the lands from them and built buildings where there were no Palestinians. The Palestinians were the first to attack the Israelis.

--- End quote ---
Nothing can be any further from the truth. Before the illegal occupation of the Zionist regime, Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine together without any hatred towards each other. Palestine was a country. It had people. Israel never brought the land from them or at least it's not how it all started, the Great Britain created a small Jewish state in Palestine after the Holocaust which resulted in Palestinians being forced to move out. What right did Britain had to do this and what the fuck did Palestine had to do with any of the Holocaust? Wouldn't it have made more sense to create such state in Germany? Anyways, the Palestinians and other Arab countries clearly didn't liked this which is completely understandable so of course they opposed such occupation.

--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---Plus, when Israel suggested the 2 states (1 Palestine and 1 Israel), the Palestinians denied and wanted the whole country to themselves. That's when Israel was attacked from all sides and they've still won......So it's theirs.

--- End quote ---
So if I would come to your house and claim that it's mine but I would then give you an offer for one side of the house to belong to me and the other side of the house to you, would you agree? If you would disagree and then I would force you to leave your house would that be justified? I think not.


--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---The only reasons Hezbollah isn't using the chemical weapons they have - http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165884#.UjMlp8Zbl8E
Iran has used chemical weapons in the past - http://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/history-irans-chemical-weapon-related-efforts

--- End quote ---
>israelnationalnews
Seems legit.

>iranwatch
Seeing as it is a USA made website I'm unconvinced and I was unable to find any article (it was a really short search) that would claim that Hezbollah have used them. If you know more articles about it then I would like to take a look at them.


--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---When you're talking about Israel using chemical weapons, you're talking about white phosphorus, right? Even though they might've have really used it to defend themselves, they've still killed many civilians. It's true that it's horrible, but for all I know that was the first and last time. It's quite hard not to harm civilians when the terrorists are attacking so nearby and even from inside residential buildings.

--- End quote ---
Yes, white phosphorous. So you justify their efforts to get a few groups of "terrorists" which mostly likely were those who were fighting for their home land, even if it means that many more civilians will die?


--- Quote from: Jhon on September 13, 2013, 07:59:41 AM ---The number of wars and territorial disputes in Israel is obviously high when they are surrounded by enemies. If they won't defend themselves, they'll be wiped out.

--- End quote ---

This is the same propaganda that is constantly being repeated by United States and Israel.
   So in your world, when all the surrounding regions are hostile against Israel, then it's the evil Muslims who want to do harm to the innocent Jews? Have you ever wondered WHY are they hostile towards Israel? Is it because they're Jewish, rich or have democracy or is because they have forced the Palestinians with brute force to leave their homes and to this day continue to do that and even go as far as to threaten the last two independent nations in the region, Syria and Iran with sanctions and war? What's even worse they're trying to drag USA to fight their wars for them which so far was working pretty good for them.

"Whaah whaah Iran will get dem nukes and kill us, it will be like another shoah!" -Israel while having 40-200 nuclear weapons, stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, a huge backing of USA and NATO, and one of the strongest military in the world. This is outrageous hypocrisy. Please do your self a favor and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH before continuing the discussion with claims backed by pro-Israel sources.

CodeKyuubi:
Didn't the Allies give Israel the land in Palestine because it was their ancestral home and religious center? Considering Judaism isn't a race, but a religion. From what I've read, The Roman Empire renamed Israel to Palestine after a rebellion and they were persecuted for centuries, leading to the majority of Jews migrating out of Palestine. And, if I recall correctly, a lot of the land that Israel took illegally happened as a result of the wars waged against them.

I suppose they reason that because they were attacked, and won, they had a right to take some "spoils". "Let he has never sinned cast the first stone." I'm sure the Arabs weren't expecting to lose, but they did and it came with repercussions. I'm guessing the UN turned a blind eye to it because the Arabs were the official aggressors by initiating the wars. I don't know why Israel is being spotlighted though, when I'm pretty sure that the Arab League is also against Syria and negotiating with America to strike Syria.

Prox:

--- Quote from: CodeKyuubi on September 13, 2013, 03:09:40 PM ---Didn't the Allies give Israel the land in Palestine because it was their ancestral home and religious center? Considering Judaism isn't a race, but a religion. From what I've read, The Roman Empire renamed Israel to Palestine after a rebellion and they were persecuted for centuries, leading to the majority of Jews migrating out of Palestine. And, if I recall correctly, a lot of the land that Israel took illegally happened as a result of the wars waged against them.

I suppose they reason that because they were attacked, and won, they had a right to take some "spoils". "Let he has never sinned cast the first stone." I'm sure the Arabs weren't expecting to lose, but they did and it came with repercussions. I'm guessing the UN turned a blind eye to it because the Arabs were the official aggressors by initiating the wars.

--- End quote ---
I'll repeat myself again, what right did the so called allies had to take Palestinian land and give them to Jews? As for the aggression of Arabs please refer to my previous post.

--- Quote from: Prox on September 13, 2013, 09:43:46 AM ---Nothing can be any further from the truth. Before the illegal occupation of the Zionist regime, Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine together without any hatred towards each other. Palestine was a country. It had people. Israel never brought the land from them or at least it's not how it all started, the Great Britain created a small Jewish state in Palestine after the Holocaust which resulted in Palestinians being forced to move out. What right did Britain had to do this and what the fuck did Palestine had to do with any of the Holocaust? Wouldn't it have made more sense to create such state in Germany? Anyways, the Palestinians and other Arab countries clearly didn't liked this which is completely understandable so of course they opposed such occupation.So if I would come to your house and claim that it's mine but I would then give you an offer for one side of the house to belong to me and the other side of the house to you, would you agree? If you would disagree and then I would force you to leave your house would that be justified? I think not.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: CodeKyuubi on September 13, 2013, 03:09:40 PM ---I don't know why Israel is being spotlighted though, when I'm pretty sure that the Arab League is also against Syria and negotiating with America to strike Syria.

--- End quote ---
>implying the Arab League is not a puppet of USA and Israel
Israel also has been pushing for this war for quite a while now so that in itself is a good reason to put it in the spotlight.

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