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.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) => Discussion => Topic started by: Cake Faice on November 30, 2011, 03:42:16 PM

Title: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Cake Faice on November 30, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
Self-explanatory. This is aside from the political discussions.

How much would the world be in a shitstorm if the big bang theory was proven to be correct, and that's how the universe actually happened.

This isn't meant to be a Religion vs. Science shitfest, just I'm curious on what people would think of it.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Nemisous on November 30, 2011, 03:44:44 PM
Self-explanatory.

How much would the world be in a shitstorm if the big bang theory was proven to be correct, and that's how the universe actually happened. It would disprove some religions in the process.

This isn't meant to be a Religion vs. Science shitfest, just I'm curious on what people would think of it.

not really, the big bang theory states that all matter compacted together to the size of the end of a ball point pen then exploded making the universe, what scientists don't know is what being or force compacted all of that matter together, hint hint wink wink.

though little would change its not like everyone would just quit their religion.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Supertoaster on November 30, 2011, 03:45:24 PM
I ask myself questions like this all the time, but I think the religious people will say something along the lines of "It was God who made that happen" etc.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: ledjohnny on November 30, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
People wouldn't abandon their religion, just look at evolution. It's pretty damn solid yet religion is still high.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Doctor Who on November 30, 2011, 03:52:10 PM
Here you go.
http://news.discovery.com/space/big-bang-gas-stars-111110.html (http://news.discovery.com/space/big-bang-gas-stars-111110.html)
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Nemisous on November 30, 2011, 03:58:26 PM
Here you go.
http://news.discovery.com/space/big-bang-gas-stars-111110.html (http://news.discovery.com/space/big-bang-gas-stars-111110.html)

well they think, its gas, from the big bang theory, they cant 100% prove it, because they dont have big bang gas to compare it to.  alas, the theory continues.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Peetah on November 30, 2011, 04:05:49 PM
The bible to too broad to prove anything either.
Anyways, proving one right does not make the other impossible.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Tezuni on November 30, 2011, 07:00:01 PM
I'm amazed at how fast people close their eyes to either science or religion.
I think that 'magic' or 'miracles' is just science we don't understand yet. 

To primitive people, Europeans a few centuries ago must have looked like gods, being able to point a wood stick at them and kill them instantly with a loud bang from the gunshot.  I don't find it that far fetched to believe that there is a supreme power or God out there who is just beyond our understanding or comprehension.  I guess it all depends on how open minded you are. 
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: metalbeersolid on November 30, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
I ask myself questions like this all the time, but I think the religious people will say something along the lines of "It was God who made that happen" etc.
The bible to too broad to prove anything either.
Anyways, proving one right does not make the other impossible.

God, god does everything yet nothing and is neither confirmable nor deniable, and is based on faith and a 2000 year old book written by goat farmers and translated by multiple people with varying degrees of success. Reminds me of a song...

Rush - Faithless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJKFu51lbM#)
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Deacon on November 30, 2011, 08:59:34 PM
God, god does everything yet nothing and is neither confirmable nor deniable, and is based on faith and a 2000 year old book written by goat farmers and translated by multiple people with varying degrees of success. Reminds me of a song...

Rush - Faithless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJKFu51lbM#)

Hi. I'm RND's self proclaimed Rush ass-slave.
You are now a friend.
You are offered the protection that comes along with me as a friend.





On-topic: String Theory; that is all.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Juan_Ambriz on November 30, 2011, 09:18:08 PM
If it did happen then we are in deep shit when we get close to the other galaxies that we collide into...

I love astronomy a LOT so I like these topics :D
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Jhon on December 01, 2011, 12:55:56 AM
I'm amazed at how fast people close their eyes to either science or religion.
I think that 'magic' or 'miracles' is just science we don't understand yet. 

To primitive people, Europeans a few centuries ago must have looked like gods, being able to point a wood stick at them and kill them instantly with a loud bang from the gunshot.  I don't find it that far fetched to believe that there is a supreme power or God out there who is just beyond our understanding or comprehension.  I guess it all depends on how open minded you are.

Those gods can also be aliens....
After we'll get an answer about the bing bang theory we'll probably discover something new that will need to be proven, which will probably be even more confusing.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2011, 01:29:23 AM
The Big Bang Theory has been proven. We all know that "something" contracted very small and then expanded very quickly, creating the "world" as we know it. Of course, you have to remember that The Big Bang wasn't actually a bang, it was just an extremely fast expansion.

Of course, I don't believe in God. I'm Agnostic, I don't believe nor believe, I'm on the fence. But when I think about evolution, and think back, for example: What came after us? What came after that? Then what? And then? And eventually you find yourself at a dead end, and it seems the only solution that we have at our disposal is "God?".

Personally, I believe we are all made up of tiny atoms. Each human is made up of millions and billions of these little atoms and, upon death, and upon a short "waiting period" of around forty years or so, they break apart, forming another "being" elsewhere. This theory goes hand-in-hand with history, and how the death/birth ratio is so very similar. With this in mind, Jimi Hendrix's re-incarnation could be amongst us right now!
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Nemisous on December 01, 2011, 01:31:24 AM
Those gods can also be aliens....

that sounds like something the history channel would regurgitate, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.  though it would help if they would atleast give us some credible evidence.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Jhon on December 01, 2011, 02:33:49 AM
that sounds like something the history channel would regurgitate, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.  though it would help if they would atleast give us some credible evidence.

Well, the descriptions of angels and monsters in bibles are actually how humans tried to describe the aliens. It also make sense how god which can control everything can't control humans.
Also explains how come many bibles from far lands describe the same things in their bibles at some parts and it explains how god has emotions (caring for humans for example).

It makes more sense to me, but I still haven't seen/heard enough evidences to make me truly believe in it.

I'm an Atheist by the way. If there is a god he's completely different than how the bible describes him.


The big bang theory is partially proven. No one proved how it started or why.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2011, 02:39:07 AM
I don't believe in Atheism. Atheism is the belief in nothing. Being an Atheist means you believe that NOTHING in any relation to a God, no matter how big or small. But how can you possibly know whether it is true or not? I used to be an Atheist and realised that it is quite silly to believe in absolutely nothing when you have no idea whether it's true or not.

I mean no offence by this, I just think Atheism is an arrogant belief.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Shawn on December 01, 2011, 07:05:15 AM
i think anyone thats an atheist shouldn't celebrate christmas  :trollface:
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Frank on December 01, 2011, 07:32:47 AM
I don't believe in Atheism. Atheism is the belief in nothing. Being an Atheist means you believe that NOTHING in any relation to a God, no matter how big or small. But how can you possibly know whether it is true or not? I used to be an Atheist and realised that it is quite silly to believe in absolutely nothing when you have no idea whether it's true or not.

I mean no offence by this, I just think Atheism is an arrogant belief.
Atheism means you have no god, it doesn't mean you have no reasons for anything. I suggest you read a little more.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Jhon on December 01, 2011, 07:40:36 AM
It means that I'm sure there's no god. That doesn't mean I'm also sure there's no special force/being or something like that which controls the world somehow.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Shawn on December 01, 2011, 07:46:00 AM
It means that I'm sure there's no god. That doesn't mean I'm also sure there's no special force/being or something like that which controls the world somehow.

atheism
noun
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

So it also means you don't believe in aliens or any beings smarter then mankind.


If you just don't believe in a "god" then you're not a atheist, all you are is a person who doesn't believe in god.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Xrain on December 01, 2011, 08:10:15 AM
Hmm if the big bang theory was proven correct... on one side I find this to be an almost impossible thing to happen, the big bang was far too complex of an event for us to be able to accurately model it any time soon. I just don't feel we have the mathematics to come up with a definitive answer.

Something that must be understood about any theory is that, they are for the most part, a post-hoc rationalization. This means that basically what happened, is a bunch of people sat around and used what data they had (mostly mathematical with a good amount of cosmological observations) and attempted to come up with a story that best fit that data. A lot of times this can actually come up with very strong explanations for events, though they suffer from the problem of being only as strong as the data that is used when you come up with the concept.

I feel it would be rather arrogant of us to assume that most of the current theories we have are all correct. Don't get me wrong, they are all good theories, splendid actually. For the data we have they make a lot of sense. The problem as I see it, is there is no doubt countless basic properties of the universe we have close to zero understanding of. Gravity is a big one. Gravity is responsible for most of events that took place during the big bang, so how could we in good faith believe a theory to be true that we only have and extremely basic idea of how the basic forces involved operate.

We have some empirical data on how they operate, but in reality we don't really have much understanding of what is going on. This isn't our fault really as we suffer from a limited perspective on things. Mostly because most of our measurements are only local measurements, and we have very little idea if the laws of physics are different in different parts of the universe.

So I feel that in time, we will come to view most of our current theories the same way we view the idea that the earth is flat. It made a lot of sense at the time for the data people had available, but we both are missing key concepts that we just couldn't understand at the time.

 
I don't understand why people think that if you are religious you cannot believe in science or vise-versa. I recently heard a very interesting talk by a pretty prominent cosmologist, it was a pretty long talk and had many really interesting ideas, but the general concept of what he discussed went along this lines of this.


Where I live on some clear days I can see Denali (Mt. McKinley) in the distance, often shrouded by the sun.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/xrain/IMt_McKinley_south_face_from_the_Parks_Highway.jpg)

And generally two things go through my mind, the first are observations, "the particulate concentrations in the air must be pretty low today for me to see that mountain" "That mountain is a granitic pluton", and other things like this.

The other thing that comes to mind is I see the sun glinting off the snowy slopes, and green of the trees silhouetting it and think, "Holy cow, that is a beautiful sight".


So how do we scientifically define something as beautiful?

We could say well, it has 4.56 x 10^36 atoms in the mountain's makeup, is that what makes it beautiful? For some perhaps, but most people probably not.

So that's the thing, the scientific method is absolutely wonderful for empirical observations. With it we could define nearly every property of that mountain, its size, volume, elemental concentrations, rock types, rock formations, how it was formed, how much energy was required for its formation.

Nearly everything, but one.



How beautiful is Denali?

The reason for this, is what is beautiful isn't a scientific concept. And so by attempting to define it scientifically you miss the point about a lot of things about it. Beauty is a subjective term, what is beautiful varies from person to person. Some people find a well organized spreadsheet the most beautiful thing in the world, some find Kazimir Malevich's "Black Square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Malevich.black-square.jpg)" to be the most beautiful thing in the world. Many of the things that one person finds beautiful, other people will not find nearly as beautiful.

So that's just it, it takes a person to come along and define something as beautiful. And no amount of empirical evidence will determine otherwise.

So that now brings us to the bible. You can certainly apply the scientific method to the bible, you can investigate all the historical accounts in the bible, and find that most of the historical accounts in the bible are accurate, with other evidence supporting the accounts of what takes place. In-fact a good portion of our historical data in our history books comes from accounts in the bible. Then of course the account of miracles and moral quandaries, and such is just religious habbernacky put in there by crazy goat farmers.

So that brings me to the point of all this. When you apply only the scientific method to the bible, you miss something. You miss something in the same way as when you attempt to scientifically define "Beauty". The bible was never meant to be a scientific journal.

It was meant to talk to the human side of things, it was meant to talk to the side that calls something beautiful.

Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2011, 08:17:05 AM
atheism
noun
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

So it also means you don't believe in aliens or any beings smarter then mankind.


If you just don't believe in a "god" then you're not a atheist, all you are is a person who doesn't believe in god.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.  ;)

Atheism means you have no god, it doesn't mean you have no reasons for anything. I suggest you read a little more.

I never said it meant you have no reasons for anything. I was referring to the definition of the word; the one Shawn kindly provided.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Frank on December 01, 2011, 08:41:29 AM
"Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century."


From the good Wiki.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Sabb on December 01, 2011, 09:18:32 AM
I don't believe in Atheism. Atheism is the belief in nothing. Being an Atheist means you believe that NOTHING in any relation to a God, no matter how big or small. But how can you possibly know whether it is true or not? I used to be an Atheist and realised that it is quite silly to believe in absolutely nothing when you have no idea whether it's true or not.

I mean no offence by this, I just think Atheism is an arrogant belief.
Inert. Inert everywhere.
The same argument can be used against any religion... except it's WAY more commonly used for Christianity than Atheism for example lol...
But either way, that argument is kind of ignorant on it's own. So because we can't know for certain if there's a god or not, we should just believe the riddles our parents tell us? No. Blind faith is ignorant, not Atheism. (I'm saying ignorant, because I'm assuming that's what you meant by arrogant? I don't see how believing in Atheism or any religion for that matter would make someone arrogant.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2011, 09:34:28 AM
Inert. Inert everywhere.
The same argument can be used against any religion... except it's WAY more commonly used for Christianity than Atheism for example lol...
But either way, that argument is kind of ignorant on it's own. So because we can't know for certain if there's a god or not, we should just believe the riddles our parents tell us? No. Blind faith is ignorant, not Atheism. (I'm saying ignorant, because I'm assuming that's what you meant by arrogant? I don't see how believing in Atheism or any religion for that matter would make someone arrogant.

I understand what you're saying, and I meant no offence by what I said, but I just think that people are too quick to just label themselves as being Atheists.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Sabb on December 01, 2011, 09:35:26 AM
I understand what you're saying, and I meant no offence by what I said, but I just think that people are too quick to just label themselves as being Atheists.
I know. I'm not offended, I don't identify myself as an Atheist anyhow.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Nemisous on December 01, 2011, 12:47:15 PM
It means that I'm sure there's no god. That doesn't mean I'm also sure there's no special force/being or something like that which controls the world somehow.

which god?, their seems to be like 50 incarnations of him. but what is your definition of a god? what do you think makes this complex universe work, i didn't just work randomly out of thin air. Some force that we as humans don't quit understand is controlling these events.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Eion Kilant 739 on December 01, 2011, 08:18:57 PM
Well, IDK what the political ramifications are, but there will certanly be some religious people attacking it when they shouldn't. Just becasue there is a scientific explanation doesn't mean that god didn't use science to MAKE what happened, happen.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: ursus on December 01, 2011, 08:25:10 PM
For humans to say that we've only been around for an incomprehensibly small fraction of time compared to the universe, and then to conclude that we know how the universe itself came into existence, is incredibly arrogant.

The simple, blunt fact is that none of us will ever see the big bang happen, so we can never conclusively prove so.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Bovicide on December 01, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
For humans to say that we've only been around for an incomprehensibly small fraction of time compared to the universe, and then to conclude that we know how the universe itself came into existence, is incredibly arrogant.

The simple, blunt fact is that none of us will ever see the big bang happen, so we can never conclusively prove so.

This man doesnt know that light takes time to travel, thus the farther away we look, the farther back in time we can look. Ha ha I'm seeing the plasma of the early universe and he doesnt know about physics.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: ·UηİŦ·· on December 02, 2011, 05:00:47 AM
Well then.

I hope our Universe uses Ω < 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe#Open_universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe#Open_universe)

Best doomsday ever, assuming one is even alive then.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Jhon on December 02, 2011, 06:48:41 AM
which god?, their seems to be like 50 incarnations of him. but what is your definition of a god? what do you think makes this complex universe work, i didn't just work randomly out of thin air. Some force that we as humans don't quit understand is controlling these events.

I think what makes this complex universe work is something I don't know about yet. Maybe it did work randomly out of thin air and maybe not, some scientists say there are millions of universes and our universe is one which worked and even has a planet/s that can sustain life forms. Maybe there's a force controlling and maybe there isn't. But it's not a god.

My definition of god - Some devine being that punishes/rewards people for what they do, gives humans rules and needs to be worshipped in some way. Kind of my definition of god.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: ursus on December 02, 2011, 09:31:31 AM
This man doesnt know that light takes time to travel, thus the farther away we look, the farther back in time we can look. Ha ha I'm seeing the plasma of the early universe and he doesnt know about physics.

Oh

Forgot about that part

Well

Carry on.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: Nemisous on December 02, 2011, 01:36:56 PM
I think what makes this complex universe work is something I don't know about yet. Maybe it did work randomly out of thin air and maybe not, some scientists say there are millions of universes and our universe is one which worked and even has a planet/s that can sustain life forms. Maybe there's a force controlling and maybe there isn't. But it's not a god.

My definition of god - Some devine being that punishes/rewards people for what they do, gives humans rules and needs to be worshipped in some way. Kind of my definition of god.

so even though their could be a divine force out their that bend things to its liking, it cant be a god, right?, a god is some old man in the sky that rides around smiting ppl.  ::)

but think of how rationally things work, i mean you dont see mountains blowing up from their atoms not being all alined. everying work rationally and has a balance. that kind of thing doesnt happen randomly, it would be like putting a stick of dynamite in a stack of bricks and the falling bricks make a brick house.
Title: Re: What if the Big Bang theory was proven?
Post by: ·UηİŦ·· on December 03, 2011, 10:23:10 AM
Maybe the Universe is just one big mathematical Equation being put through a entity or machine of some sort in order to get an answer.

Maybe that's the Balance... though, keep in mind, things are always asploding, even on Earth, let alone the Sun, and tiny atoms somewhere, and Quarks are always leaping (Do we really know?) from one place to another, maybe even seeping through the Universes randomly, for even the fractions of a nanosecond (I don't know the actual number/value, but just to give an idea, it's a really relatively short time).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd rather stop thinking altogether and making inconsistent points to which I'm only ever just randomly spitting out.

No one man could figure that out. Let alone, stop to breathe and eat and sleep and keep his heart beating and his body in good shape, and not die of old age, let alone comprehend god knows what.