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.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) => Discussion => Topic started by: ○ Μαρία ○ on September 30, 2013, 03:09:35 PM

Title: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: ○ Μαρία ○ on September 30, 2013, 03:09:35 PM
So I just heard about this on the news, and I am not particularly certain what this means, or what the extent of this "shutdown" is. All I know is, they have until 12:01 a.m. tonight to come to an agreement on a spending bill or something. This is the only information I've learned about this, and maybe this is all I really need to know, idk? I am kind of confused what will happen, and if it's anything really serious: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/government-shutdown-up-to-speed/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/government-shutdown-up-to-speed/)


Discuss.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: coolzeldad on September 30, 2013, 03:22:09 PM
Essentially it's nothing really different from what has happened in the past.

This is the general story:
- Nation spends more than revenue can cover
- Nation exceeds arbitrary "debt" limit, which doesn't actually mean much as you'll see in the next few lines
- Nation increases arbitrary debt limit, which means that we raise the limit for the amount of money we can "borrow" to cover the costs, however we actually don't "borrow" so to speak, we create artificial sources of temporary revenue. Some people claim it comes from X country, China is used a lot, however it is a complex political/economical control that the United States exploits.

The problem lies in the passing of a higher debt limit only because the two controlling parties of the United States have entirely different ways to control the money spent.

So they disagree until the deadline and make a quick compromise. This can have temporary negative effects to the government workforce ( e.g. slow downs, unavailable services ). This is also referred to as a "government shutdown".
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: CodeKyuubi on September 30, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Hasn't it happened multiple times in the past years, as recently as last year? To be honest, at this point I just think to myself "Oh, this again."
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: ○ Μαρία ○ on September 30, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
Essentially it's nothing really different from what has happened in the past.

This is the general story:
- Nation spends more than revenue can cover
- Nation exceeds arbitrary "debt" limit, which doesn't actually mean much as you'll see in the next few lines
- Nation increases arbitrary debt limit, which means that we raise the limit for the amount of money we can "borrow" to cover the costs, however we actually don't "borrow" so to speak, we create artificial sources of temporary revenue. Some people claim it comes from X country, China is used a lot, however it is a complex political/economical control that the United States exploits.

The problem lies in the passing of a higher debt limit only because the two controlling parties of the United States have entirely different ways to control the money spent.

So they disagree until the deadline and make a quick compromise. This can have temporary negative effects to the government workforce ( e.g. slow downs, unavailable services ). This is also referred to as a "government shutdown".
Ah I see, man they should name it something else, calling it a shutdown makes it seem like everyone is going into a state of panic and the country is going to be fucked or something. And Code the last time it happened was in like 1995 lol.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Captain Communism on September 30, 2013, 04:35:45 PM
What could happen is actually pretty bad; Social Security, Welfare, Medicare/Medicaid, Federal security forces (guards that work for the gov't)... all of those would be gone if the the shutdown actually occurred.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Astropilot on September 30, 2013, 04:46:26 PM
I saw in CNN that we just defunded Obamacare to avoid this shut down. Anyway, yeah good job US government.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: CodeKyuubi on September 30, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
Ah I see, man they should name it something else, calling it a shutdown makes it seem like everyone is going into a state of panic and the country is going to be fucked or something. And Code the last time it happened was in like 1995 lol.

I was not talking about a shutdown itself. I was talking about getting close to the deadline to a shutdown, where partisan conflict leads to dilly-dallying until the last minute where a quick compromise is hacked out.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Tezuni on September 30, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Keep in mind this is a partial and temporary government shutdown, it's not like everything is shutting down at once.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Tiger Guy on September 30, 2013, 09:13:33 PM
I like how "Government Shutdown" implies 'HOLY FUCKING SHIT EVERYTHING IS DOWN IT'S HAPPENING", but really is just select government sects being halted and employees not working.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: blαh2355 on October 01, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
What could happen is actually pretty bad; Social Security, Welfare, Medicare/Medicaid, Federal security forces (guards that work for the gov't)... all of those would be gone if the the shutdown actually occurred.
Social security and unemployment welfare still works

Defense is still here, their pay is just postponed.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: JIGSAW on October 06, 2013, 04:32:24 PM
I saw in CNN that we just defunded Obamacare to avoid this shut down. Anyway, yeah good job US government.

No Obamacare is still up and still funded, we have the Republicans to blame for this little incident because they won't fund the government because of Obamacare this isn't the first time the Republicans has said no to things that would help the unfortunate and the poor they have said no to S.S., The Civil Rights Act and the Homestead Act. The Republicans do this so they can sit on their millions and laugh at the poor and the middle class because they are on top of the pyramid of social class just as the rich and the corrupt. Anyway Obamacare Isn't underfunded because its a law and The Republicans are shitting themselves right now as we speak. The only time we should worry about this incident is after October 17th.  If the Republicans can't get their heads out of their asses and vote on the new plan by then that's when shit hits the fan and we should be worried but like I said there is nothing to worry about at this time so rest easy....(for now).
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: qt on October 07, 2013, 08:34:24 AM
Our politics is a joke
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Alkaline on October 07, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/)

It's the end of the world!!! OMG
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Shockah on October 07, 2013, 09:38:52 PM
this isn't the first time the Republicans has said no to things that would help the unfortunate and the poor they have said no to S.S., The Civil Rights Act and the Homestead Act.

The Civil Rights act of 1964 was pushed primarily by Northerners of the Democratic party in particular President Lyndon B. Johnson, however when looking at the percentages by party you'll see a distinct difference in the puppy killers/children eaters that the uninformed call the Republican Party. For on the left against on the right.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You see a higher percentage of the Republican caucus actually supported the act more so than those of the Democratic party, this is partially due to the large population of Southern Democrats during the time period. These numbers are taken from wikipedia but the information is highly documented and I can cite 10-15 other non-biased sites should you so choose to want them.

As for the case of the Homestead Act, the original act was actually proposed by Northern Republicans before the Civil War and was blocked in congress by the Democratic party. If however you're referring to later acts that fall under the same category most all were supported by Republicans, the famous Homestead act of 1862 was signed into law by Lincoln after it had been veto'd 2 years prior due to the South (primarily Democrat) succession from the Union.

So though today the Democratic party is seen as the caring and compassionate party, throughout history the Republicans have been the ones who have typically made real headway on the issue of civil rights and equal opportunity. The Republican party of today however often does not support the implementation of new social services or renovations to long-standing systems due to the fact that our country is and has been for well over a decade, printing money with nothing to back the paper. I don't want to get too biased here but bottom line being the way of economics where everyone is fine and dandy and plays PC games all day and gets free health care doesn't work. There simply aren't enough people in the country working and willing to work to provide for those who don't. My opinion is as such, equal economic opportunity is the extent of the governments responsibility to its people when it comes to financial security.

So I believe you're a tad misinformed, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but please use citable facts to do so.

Edit* And the "Government Shutdown" is only actually remotely affecting somewhere in the range of 15-20% of government services. I do however disagree with the methods the Republicans are using here, once again they're getting themselves painted as the party that wants to destroy America because of their retarded methods to cause much needed change, or rather to prevent it in this case.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Cake Faice on October 08, 2013, 10:45:01 AM
Edit* And the "Government Shutdown" is only actually remotely affecting somewhere in the range of 15-20% of government services. I do however disagree with the methods the Republicans are using here, once again they're getting themselves painted as the party that wants to destroy America because of their retarded methods to cause much needed change, or rather to prevent it in this case.
Every principle you stated about Republicans has changed very rapidly in recent years. Most of the GOP are old, white, rich, conservative, and quite frankly, don't give a fuck about ANYONE but themselves and their money. I find it disgusting really how they're aloud to fuck over the rest of the country's population and only care about attending to their own kind. Why do you think Clean Energy isn't popping up left and right? Why do you think we don't have electric cars? Hell, why do you think Marijuana is illegal still? They accept money up the ass from these corporations to keep their horribly outdated methods up just to make a profit.

Everyone pushes for cleaner energy? Once those clean energy bills hit Congress by Democrats, NOOOOOOOOOOOPE. The oil/coal/fossil fuel companies keep tipping them off with loads of money to keep their shitty, outdated methods into play so they won't lose money to cleaner and efficient energy.

Who do you think votes against those bills and regulation? Today's republicans will always be shitholes, sitting there in the house, collecting government paychecks DURING the shutdown, and shooting down anybody that has anything useful in society that'll benefit us. One day they're going to pull their heads out of their asses and realize how badly they've fucked over the country.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Prox on October 08, 2013, 12:36:11 PM
Who do you think votes against those bills and regulation? Today's republicans will always be shitholes, sitting there in the house, collecting government paychecks DURING the shutdown, and shooting down anybody that has anything useful in society that'll benefit us. One day they're going to pull their heads out of their asses and realize how badly they've fucked over the country.
To be honest, it's neither the democrats nor republicans that have fucked the country up, both parties are two wings of the same bird. What you really should thank for this is those who control the money, which in US case is the federal reserve which is basically a private entity owned by the biggest world banks and is not under the government control, I've also heard multiple times that the way they operate is unconstitutional.
Video related: 'Dollar valueless, about to crash' - World Bank whistleblower (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgA9j-4dB0#)
Also never forget about all that foreign aid to countries like Israel and all those wars that had no interest for the United States.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Shockah on October 08, 2013, 02:42:00 PM
Every principle you stated about Republicans has changed very rapidly in recent years. Most of the GOP are old, white, rich, conservative, and quite frankly, don't give a fuck about ANYONE but themselves and their money. I find it disgusting really how they're aloud to fuck over the rest of the country's population and only care about attending to their own kind. Why do you think Clean Energy isn't popping up left and right? Why do you think we don't have electric cars? Hell, why do you think Marijuana is illegal still? They accept money up the ass from these corporations to keep their horribly outdated methods up just to make a profit.

Everyone pushes for cleaner energy? Once those clean energy bills hit Congress by Democrats, NOOOOOOOOOOOPE. The oil/coal/fossil fuel companies keep tipping them off with loads of money to keep their shitty, outdated methods into play so they won't lose money to cleaner and efficient energy.

Who do you think votes against those bills and regulation? Today's republicans will always be shitholes, sitting there in the house, collecting government paychecks DURING the shutdown, and shooting down anybody that has anything useful in society that'll benefit us. One day they're going to pull their heads out of their asses and realize how badly they've fucked over the country.

First off, I consider myself a Moderate Republican and on the topic of cleaner energy I completely agree that it is and will continue to be a pressing issue for some time. Unfortunately what most people don't realize is that the only "clean" energy source we currently have that is efficient enough to meet our energy consumption needs AND our budget is nuclear energy and public opinion both Democrat and Republican of nuclear energy is very mixed. So while I believe we should be switching to cleaner energy sources unfortunately we have to put in a lot of research and a lot of dollars before any honestly become viable enough to sustain our country.

As for the topic of them being greedy as some are what you have to realize is I can say the contrasting statement about Democrats. "All Democrats are these days are uninformed voters and an extra mouth to feed, most vote Democrat knowing they'll be fed and clothed by the party and never actually contribute anything to society." Now as ignorant as that sounds look at the percentages of Democrat voters to Republicans and using your logic they show just that. 63% of voters earning over $200,000 annually vote Republican whilst exactly that percentage 63% of voters earning under $15,000 annually vote Democrat. I'm not at all saying there isn't a portion of those Republicans that are "greedy" by your definition what I am however saying is there is JUST as many Democrats who want to sit on their asses all day and let Obama take care of them with said Republicans tax dollars which simply isn't right in a capitalist society.

In regards to the legalization of Marijuana, I also concur it should be legalized and generally think the Republican party is simply out of touch with this generation. My fear however is shit like DUI in the case of marijuana and what have you. For MOST people marijuana is a calming laxing drug, it decreases productivity and motivation to do anything, this could also lead to complications as a society. Bottom line being, if people are gonna do it whether it's legal or not and it doesn't directly harm anyone (minus their brain cells) we might as well legalize it and tax it, seeing as how fucking desperately we're in need of any sort of revenue.

And electric cars aren't popular because no one fucking wants them, very few people are willing to go home to charge their car every 4 hours, that has nothing to do with the federal govt. that's just because the technology hasn't advanced enough to make them desirable to many people.

Edit* On the topic of charity I just wanted to note that surveys by google have shown in the past the average Republican household donates up to twice as much as the average Democrat household, other studies performed by Arthur Brooks have show a 30% larger contribution by Republican households to charity. Also if Democrats gave blood as often as Republicans do it has been reported the American blood supply would increase by nearly 45%.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Cake Faice on October 08, 2013, 03:07:59 PM
First off, I consider myself a Moderate Republican and on the topic of cleaner energy I completely agree that it is and will continue to be a pressing issue for some time. Unfortunately what most people don't realize is that the only "clean" energy source we currently have that is efficient enough to meet our energy consumption needs AND our budget is nuclear energy and public opinion both Democrat and Republican of nuclear energy is very mixed. So while I believe we should be switching to cleaner energy sources unfortunately we have to put in a lot of research and a lot of dollars before any honestly become viable enough to sustain our country.

As for the topic of them being greedy as some are what you have to realize is I can say the contrasting statement about Democrats. "All Democrats are these days are uninformed voters and an extra mouth to feed, most vote Democrat knowing they'll be fed and clothed by the party and never actually contribute anything to society." Now as ignorant as that sounds look at the percentages of Democrat voters to Republicans and using your logic they show just that. 63% of voters earning over $200,000 annually vote Republican whilst exactly that percentage 63% of voters earning under $15,000 annually vote Democrat. I'm not at all saying there isn't a portion of those Republicans that are "greedy" by your definition what I am however saying is there is JUST as many Democrats who want to sit on their asses all day and let Obama take care of them with said Republicans tax dollars which simply isn't right in a capitalist society.

In regards to the legalization of Marijuana, I also concur it should be legalized and generally think the Republican party is simply out of touch with this generation. My fear however is shit like DUI in the case of marijuana and what have you. For MOST people marijuana is a calming laxing drug, it decreases productivity and will to work, this could also lead to complications as a society. Bottom line being, if people are gonna do it whether it's legal or not we might as well legalize it and tax it, seeing as how fucking desperately we're in need of any sort of revenue.

And electric cars aren't popular because no one fucking wants them, very few people are willing to go home to charge their car every 4 hours, that has nothing to do with the federal govt. that's just because the technology hasn't advanced enough to make them desirable to many people.
IF we would have passed the clean energy laws in the first place and had research funded into them in the last 10/15 years, we would still need fossil fuels from the start. But as the years go on and time/technology progresses, we'd rely less and less on fossil fuel until it becomes and old, obsolete practice 50 years into the future. We will still need fossils fuels like oil for gas and petroleum based products (like everything), but we would really cut down on the usage rates if a large chunk of energy from the use gets cut out and replaced with clean energy.

And as for the democrat and republican thing, the republicans are just throwing a huge temper tantrum and delaying the government further just because "muh money" and won't pass any damn bill just to get that shutdown chunk of the government started back up again. They legitimately don't care about the people but for themselves. As with the marijuana issue, you honestly think the government cares about the DUI outside of the MAAD type groups? Nope. $$$.

And as for the electric car thing, sorry, but that was the most stupidest statement I've ever heard. Google ANY electric car sales figure, and you'd be surprised how much sales have jumped up when they first started becoming public. Example (http://electricdrive.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/20952/pid/20952).
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Prox on October 09, 2013, 05:33:25 AM
Speaking of an alternative energy source, have you guys heard of ITER project?
US ITER: Energy for the Future (2011) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qVQZ8nFoQE#ws)
This seems like an awesome way to generate energy and it is already being made.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: CodeKyuubi on October 09, 2013, 11:29:55 PM
Speaking of an alternative energy source, have you guys heard of ITER project?
US ITER: Energy for the Future (2011) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qVQZ8nFoQE#ws)
This seems like an awesome way to generate energy and it is already being made.

Fusion was always a good idea. Implementing it is another story. Scientists have been trying to achieve nuclear fusion for a century. The problem with conventional fusion power is that, even with the most powerful lasers in the world to induce fusion, and the most advanced technology, we still have energy loss between creating the energy to power the fusion reaction and the energy that is produced from it.

Using ITER's tech also introduces an alleged problem: The energy they create is so intense that it would damage the materials the machine is made of, and the neutron bombardment of an insufficiently resistant material would cause radioactivity of said material.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: coolzeldad on October 10, 2013, 01:05:27 AM
Yeah, the new large tokamak holds large expectations. If we can sustain a reaction like that at a level magnitudes higher of current forms than we may be able to power it's operation as well as extra power left over. Theoretically if done right we shouldn't accrue waste particles. Of course this is the desired effects and is the first of it's size so it will be some time before we see any commercial response to these if it indeed does get perfected. It's exciting stuff and I'm sure we will learn a lot from it.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Xrain on October 10, 2013, 01:27:10 AM
On that note the NIF (national ignition facility) which uses 192 lasers  to crush a fuel pellet for fusion just achieved break even with regards to energy put into the fuel and energy got out. Which is impressive considering the lasers output 500 terawatts. A major milestone in the road to fusion energy.

Also the neutron radiation issue is a problem, but it isn't a dealbreaker. The levels as to which it will irradiate the reactor walls isn't ultra high nor is it long lived <100 years usually. The materials weakening and heat loss from the plasma is a more significant problem on that front.

On the government shutdown note I am pissed as my dad can't fish for king crab as the agency that gives out crab fishing permits is part of the shutdown. So we are stuck sitting on our hands burning fuel.

Honestly it is both parties fault for being incapable of resolving situations. And then treating the American public as barganing chips for their power play games.
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: coolzeldad on October 10, 2013, 01:55:57 AM
Found the answer: http://www.collegehumor.com/embed/6923442/obamas-favorite-pokemon (http://www.collegehumor.com/embed/6923442/obamas-favorite-pokemon)

<end non-serious reply>
Title: Re: U.S Government Shutdown
Post by: Prox on October 10, 2013, 03:36:00 AM
Fusion was always a good idea. Implementing it is another story. Scientists have been trying to achieve nuclear fusion for a century. The problem with conventional fusion power is that, even with the most powerful lasers in the world to induce fusion, and the most advanced technology, we still have energy loss between creating the energy to power the fusion reaction and the energy that is produced from it.
If you watch the video it says exactly the opposite.
Using ITER's tech also introduces an alleged problem: The energy they create is so intense that it would damage the materials the machine is made of, and the neutron bombardment of an insufficiently resistant material would cause radioactivity of said material.
Well I'm sure that they are making a machine that will be able to sustain fusion reaction for long periods of time otherwise why bother to build one in the first place?