.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers

.:`=-~rANdOm~`-=:. Game Servers (Read Only) => Discussion => Topic started by: Astropilot on May 28, 2013, 02:25:56 PM

Title: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Astropilot on May 28, 2013, 02:25:56 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israels-defense-chief-hints-that-transfer-of-russias-advanced-weapons-to-syria-could-be-hit/2013/05/28/43dba3d4-c78f-11e2-9cd9-3b9a22a4000a_story.html# (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israels-defense-chief-hints-that-transfer-of-russias-advanced-weapons-to-syria-could-be-hit/2013/05/28/43dba3d4-c78f-11e2-9cd9-3b9a22a4000a_story.html#)

Russia's trying to ship air defence weapons to Syria. Israel doesn't approve of this because they think they could get hit. Do you think Russia deserves to ship weapons or do you think Israel should be listened to and prevent Russia from shipping weapons?
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Captain Communism on May 28, 2013, 02:35:32 PM
Israel causing World War III? Fucking called it ._.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Astropilot on May 28, 2013, 02:44:43 PM
Israel causing World War III? Fucking called it ._.

Here's a funny comment I found on YouTube relating to what you said.

"I don't see how the Israelis calling themselves the chosen one any different from the Nazis calling themselves the master race"
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Goat on May 28, 2013, 02:47:16 PM
Israel causing World War III? Fucking called it ._.
Israel wants to keep air dominance over the middle east. In all of their past engagements, they have maintained air superiority, because this is what decides wars. Israel does NOT want Hezbollah or similar groups to have possession of anything that can compromise their air superiority.

And saying that Israel is trying to cause WW3 is ignorant, no one wants a world war because it would end in the death of many innocent people.

Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Captain Communism on May 28, 2013, 02:49:29 PM


And saying that Israel is trying to cause WW3 is ignorant, no one wants a world war because it would end in the death of many innocent people.
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/08/israeli-historian-most-european-capitals-are-targets-for-our-air-force/ (http://www.eutimes.net/2009/08/israeli-historian-most-european-capitals-are-targets-for-our-air-force/)
Not sure of the credibility, but it's still a frightening thought :c
In fact, the post seems rather stupid... but still, if they are planning that.... I'm scared.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Goat on May 28, 2013, 03:03:41 PM
http://www.eutimes.net/2009/08/israeli-historian-most-european-capitals-are-targets-for-our-air-force/ (http://www.eutimes.net/2009/08/israeli-historian-most-european-capitals-are-targets-for-our-air-force/)
Not sure of the credibility, but it's still a frightening thought :c
In fact, the post seems rather stupid... but still, if they are planning that.... I'm scared.
Because they can fly right into the airspace of some of the most developed militaries in the world.

Conventional and strategic bombing is a thing of the past when dealing with countries that have an actual military or air force. Not to mention the U.S. having bases all over the world, and anti-ballistic missile systems all over that area as well.

Israel, like other first world nations, would lose a lot of money if it tried to engage in war with a modern air force.

And addressing the OP, Israel would get curb stomped by Russia. You can say whatever you want about it's training and what not, but Russia curb stomped Georgia in a matter of days, even though Georgia was NATO trained and armed.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 29, 2013, 04:32:30 AM
Israel is mad because they won't be able to bomb Syria anymore. How cute.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Roach :3 on May 29, 2013, 08:41:55 AM
Israel is mad because they won't be able to bomb Syria anymore. How cute.
Right, like we bomb Syria every day...

No but seriously, to a person like me that lives in Israel, there's been actually alot of issues with other countries surrounding us, we never truly declared war on those countries, only at the point where it got out of hand and we had to stop them, Air Forces in israel right now are the most reliable thing like Goat said, if we wouldn't have the air dominance Israel would've shrank drastically within few years being taken over by Hamas and other organizations, same thing that was with Gaza, we firstly stopped them from shooting missiles few years ago, now they've been bombing us again, so we decided to do something, we shot back, you can't say "Oh Israel is so bad because it wants to defend people." its like taking the US and turning all of the states against eachother so they would fight, that's what Israel has to deal with.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 29, 2013, 11:20:03 AM
Right, like we bomb Syria every day...

No but seriously, to a person like me that lives in Israel, there's been actually alot of issues with other countries surrounding us, we never truly declared war on those countries, only at the point where it got out of hand and we had to stop them, Air Forces in israel right now are the most reliable thing like Goat said, if we wouldn't have the air dominance Israel would've shrank drastically within few years being taken over by Hamas and other organizations, same thing that was with Gaza, we firstly stopped them from shooting missiles few years ago, now they've been bombing us again, so we decided to do something, we shot back, you can't say "Oh Israel is so bad because it wants to defend people." its like taking the US and turning all of the states against eachother so they would fight, that's what Israel has to deal with.
Please be joking...
There is no justification for Israel's recent air strikes on Palestine, it was a completely unprovoked attacks, in fact it was Israel who wanted to take the Palestine and send those people who had already lived there somewhere else just because this was a "promised land" to Israel, which was the start of this conflict. And, seriously, the only reason I can think of why Israel doesn't want those SAMs be put in Syria is because they want to be able to do more air strikes in the future. And please, don't make Israel look like it's the innocent sheep here, it really isn't.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Roach :3 on May 29, 2013, 11:44:31 AM
Yeah, they don't want Syria to have anti-air weaponry due to the fact that if they do have, we could be attacked by nuclear weapons or foot soldiers, while they don't have anti-air we have control of the air so we can keep an eye on what they do.

By the way do you even know why those air-attacks were sent out recently? to destroy different weapon shipments for different terror organizations.

Promised land, at first Israel was made into two, Palestinian side and Israel side, when the Palestinians had most of the territory, they decided to be assholes and wanted to take the whole country, so basically they got nothing at all.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 29, 2013, 12:23:23 PM
Yeah, they don't want Syria to have anti-air weaponry due to the fact that if they do have, we could be attacked by nuclear weapons or foot soldiers, while they don't have anti-air we have control of the air so we can keep an eye on what they do.
Nuclear weapons? The Israel is the only country in that region who has a nuclear weapon, Syria does not have a nuclear weapon and even if they do, what difference do the SAMs make?

By the way do you even know why those air-attacks were sent out recently? to destroy different weapon shipments for different terror organizations.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Israel responded to the world only after Syria announced that it got attacked by Israel. If there was really a weapon shipment that they were destroying then why didn't they said it right after the attack?

Promised land, at first Israel was made into two, Palestinian side and Israel side, when the Palestinians had most of the territory, they decided to be assholes and wanted to take the whole country, so basically they got nothing at all.
Israel was the one who wanted Palestine, not the other way around.


Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 02:57:53 AM
Considering Israel is surrounded on all sides by nations that would love nothing more than to exterminate them, I think they have every reason to worry about their national security.

As for the Israeli vs Russia / Georgia argument, places say that Georgia didn't have any armored divisions and that their tanks were nearly all T-72s. Whereas Israel does have armored divisions and also fields the Merkava III/IVs. On the other hand, until a few years ago, Russia's military was dying from lack of funding, and while their technology is top class, they lacked actual numbers to be effective.

Israel would put up a hell of a fight for sure against Russia. Israeli forces are not only trained and up to date technologically, but they're also battle-tested and determined. They're also supported by the USA, who can field more tonnage out on the water than the next fourteen largest navies combined, and enough tanks and planes to surpass both "quantity is its own quality" and "quality over quantity". They have quality and quantity.

Basically, if Syria and terrorist groups get their hands on modern SAM systems, it means they can knock down Israeli jets, which means they can make Israel more vulnerable, which means they have greater incentive to attack and exterminate the "heathen" Jews. So to Israel, the weapons systems are a clear and present threat to their security and safety.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 30, 2013, 04:48:40 AM
Considering Israel is surrounded on all sides by nations that would love nothing more than to exterminate them, I think they have every reason to worry about their national security.
That's because Israel basically wanted to kick out all Muslims out of the Palestine area and surrounding areas are mostly Muslims so it's not a big surprise.
As for the Israeli vs Russia / Georgia argument, places say that Georgia didn't have any armored divisions and that their tanks were nearly all T-72s. Whereas Israel does have armored divisions and also fields the Merkava III/IVs. On the other hand, until a few years ago, Russia's military was dying from lack of funding, and while their technology is top class, they lacked actual numbers to be effective.

Israel would put up a hell of a fight for sure against Russia. Israeli forces are not only trained and up to date technologically, but they're also battle-tested and determined. They're also supported by the USA, who can field more tonnage out on the water than the next fourteen largest navies combined, and enough tanks and planes to surpass both "quantity is its own quality" and "quality over quantity". They have quality and quantity.
The only reason why Israel would be able to put up a hell of a fight is because of the US financial and military support otherwise Russians would crush Israel but if this were to happen then we would probably have a 3rd world war and this wouldn't be Russia's or Syria's fault.

Basically, if Syria and terrorist groups get their hands on modern SAM systems, it means they can knock down Israeli jets, which means they can make Israel more vulnerable, which means they have greater incentive to attack and exterminate the "heathen" Jews. So to Israel, the weapons systems are a clear and present threat to their security and safety.
Considering the recent attacks done by Israel they obviously don't want Palestine to retaliate or even have a way to defend them selves. Also don't forget that they would only be able to knock out Israels jets only if they violate their air space, besides, I'm pretty sure Russians are going to be in control of those missiles anyway.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 09:23:42 AM
Quote
That's because Israel basically wanted to kick out all Muslims out of the Palestine area and surrounding areas are mostly Muslims so it's not a big surprise.

From what I've read, it seemed like it began because Palestine refused to give up land to the Jews after the Holocaust through the UN Partition Plan, which sparked a civil war between the Arabs and the Jews. The UN Plan was approved and after the British pulled out, Israel went ahead and declared themselves a state (Seeing as they were technically approved by the international community at the time), at which point other Arab nations intervened in Palestine, where Israel won.

And that, while there were Israelis that wanted to force out the Palestinians, originally many Jewish leaders supported living in peace with their neighbors, but fought back when Palestine refused to give up any land.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 30, 2013, 09:46:29 AM
From what I've read, it seemed like it began because Palestine refused to give up land to the Jews after the Holocaust through the UN Partition Plan, which sparked a civil war between the Arabs and the Jews. The UN Plan was approved and after the British pulled out, Israel went ahead and declared themselves a state (Seeing as they were technically approved by the international community at the time), at which point other Arab nations intervened in Palestine, where Israel won.

And that, while there were Israelis that wanted to force out the Palestinians, originally many Jewish leaders supported living in peace with their neighbors, but fought back when Palestine refused to give up any land.
Well, you can't blame Palestinians for not wanting to leave their home.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 09:51:54 AM
The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 30, 2013, 01:08:20 PM
The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War)
Israel was created in a territory that belonged to Muslims and they didn't agreed The Partition Plan in the first place.
Quote
The 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine started on 30 November 1947, one day after the UN General Assembly vote on the UN Partition Plan.[31] It finished on 14 May 1948 when the Jewish People's Council approved a proclamation which declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.[32]

During this period, the Arab and Jewish communities of Palestine clashed, while the British, who had the obligation to maintain order,[33][34] organised their own withdrawal and intervened only on an occasional basis.

From January onwards, operations became increasingly militarized. A number of Arab Liberation Army regiments intervened inside Palestine, each active in a variety of distinct sectors around the different coastal towns. They consolidated their presence in Galilee and Samaria.[35] On 16 February 1948, UN Palestine Commission to the security council reported that: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."[36]

Arab Palestinians left, fled or were expelled in large numbers, especially after Jewish forces took the major seaport of Haifa in April 1948.
I think we could agree that mistakes were made by both sides and should talk about what is going on right now instead of what already happened.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: ·UηİŦ·· on May 30, 2013, 01:36:17 PM
I think...

No one should even need to ship weapons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

tl;dr I would want to see some sort of diplomacy sans uproar, but I'm not sure that will happen. Either way, I'm hoping that said weapons can be shipped, and nothing else comes from it besides Syria having a couple AA pew-pews collecting dust.

... I know the world doesn't always work that way, but we didn't blow up in 1991, and we didn't blow up just now.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Tiger Guy on May 30, 2013, 01:56:00 PM
The Partition Plan was supposed to let the two states share the land, living in different parts of the country. Many Jews already lived in Palestine, making up 33% of the population. Iirc, it wasn't as if the Palestinians living in the new Jewish state were going to be kicked out, seeing as the Jews originally wanted to live together in peace.
Does that really give Israel the right to occupy current Palestinian land though? Since the UN divided the land in 1947, Israel has occupied most of the Palestinian area the UN promised Palestine, and the Golan Heights.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not to mention that the Israeli government treats Palestinians like blacks were treated in South African apartheid.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 02:19:42 PM
Well, Israel believes they have the right to occupy the land because they were the victims, they were attacked, and they won. The Arab nations lost, and they had to cede land as part of the various peace treaties. It's kind of like when various Axis nations in World War I were separated into different nations after they lost.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Tiger Guy on May 30, 2013, 02:43:17 PM
Well, Israel believes they have the right to occupy the land because they were the victims, they were attacked, and they won. The Arab nations lost, and they had to cede land as part of the various peace treaties. It's kind of like when various Axis nations in World War I were separated into different nations after they lost.
Even if they did get land from winning the Six Day War, that doesn't give them the right to inch in closer on Palestinian territory. Also, the Treaty of Versailles isn't the best thing to reference because it's one of the main reasons that World War II even happened.


Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: CodeKyuubi on May 30, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
The obstinacy of France (and the Allies) in refusing to forgive Germany's massive debts, which caused hyperinflation and extreme poverty in Germany's economy, was the major factor of Hitler's rise to power, not just taking a strip of land from Germany.

Also, Israel probably took every single time the Arab nations and Palestinians attacked the country to take more and more land. There's been like, what, 8 wars in the region involving Israel alone?
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Astropilot on May 30, 2013, 04:54:39 PM
The obstinacy of France (and the Allies) in refusing to forgive Germany's massive debts, which caused hyperinflation and extreme poverty in Germany's economy, was the major factor of Hitler's rise to power, not just taking a strip of land from Germany.

Also, Israel probably took every single time the Arab nations and Palestinians attacked the country to take more and more land. There's been like, what, 8 wars in the region involving Israel alone?

I know Israel wants to shoot up the Giza Strip but what about the West Bank? I watched something on Vice and it shows that land was being stolen and homes were being built on Palestinian land.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Jhon on May 31, 2013, 12:57:40 AM
Israel was created in a territory that belonged to Muslims and they didn't agreed The Partition Plan in the first place.I think we could agree that mistakes were made by both sides and should talk about what is going on right now instead of what already happened.

The Muslims that lived there were mostly - if not all - nomads. The ones that did have properties and lands, many of them were bought by rich Jewish people like the baron Rothschild.
Another thing, the land wasn't declared as a country or as a land that belongs to a certain group (I'm pretty sure I'm right about the latter, but not 100%). The Muslims that lived in Israel still live in Israel. Palestinians are also supported by Israel with water and electricity, medication (when they can), etc.
The terrorists in Gaza are one of the main reasons why there are still problems. If there will be a palestinian country, it will be a lot easier for the arab countries surrounding it to destroy it (unless Iran manages to nuke it first).
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Goat on May 31, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[citation needed]
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Prox on May 31, 2013, 02:18:28 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[citation needed]
   Do I really need to? You can go to wikipedia, youtube or even check some of the recent new posts regarding these events. Also may I ask you people how exactly did you formed your thoughts that Israel is right in this? I formed mine by looking trough numerous reliable youtube videos, the comments of those videos, wikipedia, heck I suppose I could even say all I could find from the internet, so for me, it's really hard to understand why Israel is being supported.
Title: Re: Israel threatens Russia from shipping weapons
Post by: Tiger Guy on May 31, 2013, 02:55:16 PM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[citation needed]
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59306000/gif/_59306324_nuclear_weapons_464.gif)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet)